The Vernon Richard Show

• Growth Plans for Technical Testers: Why Playwright Isn’t Enough

  In this episode of the Vernon Richard Show, Richard and Vernon discuss the growth plans for testers in test automation, focusing on the importance of coding skills, exploratory testing, and the balance between generalist and specialist roles. They explore the need for measurable targets in personal development plans and the significance of understanding the context of problems in software development. The conversation also touches on the impact of AI on software engineering and the necessity for collaboration between testers and developers.00:00 - Intro01:42 - The Ramble begins07:39 - QUESTION (Thanks Thierry!): "How do you see a growth plan for testers in test automation as a personal development plan?"10:12 - How has Vern helped Testers create an automation development plan?13:14 - What does it mean to go from novice to advanced?15:15 - Rich wants to know what test automation means before answering the question!15:57 - The nuance (and trap!) of the word "tool"17:35 - Rich has come up with a new term for old testing19:21 - What about code? Which languages should you learn?20:34 - Vern's answer to a Redditor asking a similar question23:34 - Don't forget the reason why we're trying to learn all of these tools and languages24:24 - Who makes the "best" "automation" testers?25:45 - What does it look like when an SDET hasn't learned how to identify the right test?26:34 - Ok if that's you and your team, how can you make it work?28:33 - Lord of the Rings testing!29:40 - How does Alan Richardson defeat "Testing Sauron"? (I'll stop the LotR references now I swears it 😇)31:07 - Noah Sussman's excellent early ideas to solve this problem32:42 - Generalist or Specialist, what is the core, foundational knowledge needed to call yourself an engineer?34:18 - ...and what about AI? (only took half an hour!)35:10 - Vern wants to get back to work asap and start creating growth plans... but for who?38:20 - What two things are often missed in growth plans?40:41 - Rich talks about the tangible difference between being a novice and advanced SDET/Automation Specialist/Toolsmith41:39 - The cognitive load of your engineers42:17 - Production code vs Automation code: Which is more important? Rich breaks it down.44:27 - What are we optimising for?47:45 - Do we have to choose between readability and efficiency though?52:52 - Learning through pain54:12 - Rich and Vern wonder what they should do next54:32 - What makes this relevant in today's job market55:22 - One last wild take about software development careers...Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:03:23 - The Øredev conference in MalmöGet your tickets here!04:13 - The LLEWT peer testing workshopCheck out this summary from last years event by James ThomasRead about the origins of this flavour of workshop06:40 - Cynefin a sense-making framework devised by Dr Dave SnowdenHere's Dr Snowden explaining the frameworkEnabling ConstraintsThe Paradox of Choice (which I didn't know was a book - readingList++)07:39 - Here's the full question from Thierry as he asked it on LinkedIn14:14 - "GUI Automation"A term used to describe tools focused on driving browsers. Some examples of such tools would include Selenium, Cypress, Playwright, and Watir.15:57 - I'll link to Rich's article once it's published 🙂16:04 - Automation in Testing (AiT)Automation in Testing references (via Perplexity)16:18 - Some tools and frameworks Rich mentioned:SeleniumPlaywrightJUnit18:50 - Rich's API Testing article on Qt QA blog19:07 - Rich's article explaining the different kinds of GUI Automation19:21 - What's a scripting language vs an object-oriented language?According to PerplexityKey takeaway: These are not mutually exclusive terms and label to two different aspects of programming languagesScripting: how code is runObject-orietned: how code is organised19:36 - Programming languagesTypeScriptJavaC# (pronounced "See-Sharp")JavaScript19:52 - Mark WinteringhamMark's websiteMark's GenAI bookMark's LinkedIn20:34 - The article called "Career Advice For A 35+ Year Old Manual Tester"26:54 - Erik "I love orange" DavisErik's LinkedIn27:42 - Rich's S.A.C.R.E.D. model29:40 - Alan RichardsonAlan's websiteAlan's Patreon communityAlan's LinkedIn31:02 - Noah SussmanNoah's stupendous blog post "How to teach yourself to be a technical tester: some thoughts."Noah's LinkedInHighly recommend that you watch Noah's talks on anyOfTheThings32:24 - Then the effervescent Michael Larsen actually went through the thing!He documented his journey with it too.

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• Should Testers Bother With Social Media?

  In this episode of the Vernon Richard Show, the hosts discuss the significance of social media and community interaction in the software testing field. They explore how social media has evolved, the importance of content creation, and the balance between personal goals and professional networking. The conversation also touches on their favorite podcasts and books, as well as future directions for their own show.06:10 - Olly FairhallOlly's LinkedInOlly's Bluesky11:27 - Chris ArmstrongChris's blogChris's podcast The Testing Peers (of PeersCon fame!)Chris's YouTubeChris's LinkedIn19:52 - Anne-Marie CharrettAnne-Marie's book (why are you still here? Go and buy it right now!)Anne-Marie's blogAnne-Marie's LinkedIn28:21 - Angie JonesAngie's website (including links to her public GitHub repos, blog, and allTheSocialMedia profiles - I told you she was prolific!)28:33 - GopsTo prove my point, I cannot find this man's LinkedIn profile 🤦🏾‍♂️😂 (this is a dude who I've known for multiple decades btw!)34:05 - I work at Phrase, I'm having a great time, and we're hiring (and if you see something you like, apply! Just don't forget to tell them Vern sent you! 🙂)34:36 - People who help me think about testing (and life in general)Angie (scroll up for the links!)Ash Coleman Hynie's LinkedIn (don't forget to check out the app she's building over at CountrPT!)Martin Hynie's LinkedIn (check out his new podcast The Ghost In Th Machine explaining AI!)James Thomas's LinkedIn (he also has a wonderful blog)37:35 - Dean MoonDean's websiteDean's LinkedIn37:35 - Jit GosaiJit's blog Jit's Quality Engineering Newsletter Jit's LinkedIn48:47 - Our influencesVernonDiary Of A CEO (DOAC)Modern WisdomOwner NationBig DealSame As Ever by Morgan HouselThings I need to go back and bingeAB Testing podcastQuality Talks podcastTesting Peers podcastRichardEngineering Quality podcastSecrets Of Consulting by Jerry WeinbergExplore It! by Elisabeth HendricksonThinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel KahnemanAgile Testing and More Agile Testing both by Lisa Crispin and Janet Gregory57:03 - Rachel MlotaRachel's YouTubeRachel's LinkedIn00:00 - Intro00:46 - Welcome (Tiredness, Sleeper walls, sweaty chilli, and strongman training)05:59 - QUESTION (Observation? Comment? Ramble? Whatever it is, thanks Olly!): How important is social media and community interaction to testing?06:46 - Vernon's experience of social media over the years08:30 - The impact of the "Influencer" phenomenon on testing09: 59 - The golden age of Testing Twitter10:57 - What LinkedIn can't replace12:10 - The LinkedIn algorithm is weird!13:15 - Algorithm anxiety and the overthinking spiral15:45 - Community: planned vs organic17:24 - Lurkers, reactors, and why it still counts18:04 - To be or not to be... an influencer?20:07 - Rich reflects on the impact of social media on him and testing24:00 - Vern reflects on the impact of social media on him and testing25:35 - The power of sharing with purpose (not just promoting yourself)27:19 - QUESTION (From Olly): There seems to be a push to create content. What do you think about that?30:12 - What is "content" anyway?31:09 - Angie's 1-2-punch for content creation (that we should all copy!)32:39 - Do you know why you're posting in the first place?!33:23 - The impact of talking about testing (it's not just about "likes")37:35 - Rabbiting on about writing40:31 - Talking vs Doing41:12 - Goal confusion & content fatigue44:20 - Now that we mention it, what are OUR goals for content and social media?!48:47 - QUESTION: What podcasts do you listen to, what books do you read, and do any of them influence what you'd like to do with the show?57:20 - Where are we taking the podcast?58:24 - Is Salesforce as dull as Rich thinks?59:35 - Outro

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• Gatekeeping Gotchas and Mentorship Mechanics

  In this episode of the Vernon Richard Show, Vernon and Richard discuss various topics, including personal updates, mental health, the role of gatekeeping in quality assurance, mentoring experiences, and effective onboarding strategies. They emphasise the importance of community support, advocating for mental health awareness, and the nuances of being a gatekeeper in professional settings. The conversation also delves into the dynamics of mentoring, the significance of setting clear goals, and the art of making suggestions in new environments.00:00 - Intro01:06 - Where have we been for a month?06:16 - Men's Mental Health09:46 - The Questions!10:10 - QUESTION: To gate-keep, or not to gate-keep? That is the question from Deb Sherwood22:05 - Olly impersonates Emily22:33 - QUESTION: Mentorship advice27:25 - Coaching vs Mentoring28:10 - Vern's good and bad with experiences mentoring28:57 - What role does accountability play in this?29:38 - Informal mentoring30:48 - Rich shares his experience mentoring a colleague31:46 - Rich's good and bad experiences with mentoring33:44 - Putting 💰 on the line35:45 - Energy Vampires 🧛🏾37:16 - The upside of being a mentor39:17 - QUESTION: Onboarding into a new team or to a new product40:40 - Rich's two-step process when he's in this situation43:50 - Vern's kids teach him a valuable communication technique45:24 - "Asking" & "Suggesting"48:28 - The danger of suggesting things blindly51:15 - Leadership inception54:40 - OutroLinks to stuff we mentioned during the pod:06:16 - Manchester Tech FestivalThe MTF Mixer: Male Mental Health featuringKofi JosephsKofi's website for Why Not IKofi's InstagramKofi's LinkedInJamie Lee DennisJamie's LinkedInJamie's website for Mandem MeetupDmitry LeykoDmitry's LinkedInJames DaviesJames' LinkedIn08:56 - Vern's travelsFrankfurt for German Testing Days with Beren Van DaeleRiskStorming OnlinePrague to meet my Phrase teammatesManchester Tech Festival in... Manchester!Zurich for GreaTest ConferenceLiverpool to celebrate Liverpool FC winning the Premier League!10:10 - Deb SherwoodDeb's LinkedIn15:37 - Jobs To Be Done (JTBD)Courtesy of Perplexity, here are some references you might find useful that explain the JTBD concept25:00 - S.M.A.R.T. goals27:25 - The coaching vs mentoring rabbit hole on earlier episodes29:13 - Ryan CoxRyan's website (if you check him out, tell him Vern sent you!)Ryan's LinkedIn35:45 - The Software Testers Journey book, written by Nicola Lindgren and me40:30 - Automation in Testing references (via Perplexity)41:18 - Resources about the 10 Ps of TestabilityArticle on testability featuring the 10 PsThe book Team Guide to Software Testability by Ash Winter & Rob Meaney

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• Discussing Test Automation, It Depends On....

  SummaryIn this engaging conversation, Vernon and Richard celebrate Liverpool's recent football victory while seamlessly transitioning into a discussion about automation in testing. They explore the definitions of automation, the importance of having a unified codebase for tests, and the challenges of choosing the right programming language for testing tools. The duo emphasizes the significance of collaboration between developers and testers, the need for regular review of tests, and the impact of context on decision-making in automation. The conversation is filled with insights and practical advice for anyone involved in software testing. In this conversation, Vernon and Richard explore the complexities of development and testing, focusing on the importance of language consistency, the role of developers in testing culture, and the challenges of tool standardization. They discuss the perception of automation skills in the industry, the distinction between coding and technical skills, and the need for context in automation. The conversation also touches on the future of AI in development and the balance between technical skills and automation. Finally, they share upcoming events and opportunities for community engagement.* AI Generated show notes00:00 Football Triumphs and Rivalries01:43 Diving into Automation04:28 Understanding Automation in Testing05:58 Frameworks and Code Repositories08:29 The Role of Developers in Automation11:08 Challenges in Automation Implementation13:11 Best Practices for Test Code Management19:13 Building Communication Between Components21:13 Understanding Context and Testability23:21 The Dilemma of Skipping Tests25:29 The Importance of Test Review and Discipline27:55 Navigating Commercial Pressures in Testing29:32 The Complexity of Automation in Different Languages42:16 The Misconception of Technical Skills in Automation45:45 The Automation Misconception48:44 Technical Skills vs. Coding Skills52:32 Understanding the Role of Automation56:01 The Future of Testing in an AI World59:46 The Value of Critical Thinking in Testing01:03:36 Navigating the Job Market as a Tester01:08:48 Upcoming Events and Community Engagement

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• The Messy Truth About Tech and Testing Careers in 2025

  In this episode, Richard and Vernon discuss various aspects of job stability in the tech industry post-pandemic, the impact of innovation on job longevity, and the dynamics of accidental management. They explore the changing landscape of tech roles, the importance of ratios between developers and testers in projects, and the evolving nature of go/no-go decisions in software releases. The conversation emphasizes the need for clear metrics and standards to facilitate smoother decision-making processes in tech teams.00:00 - Intro01:07 - Welcome to the Vernon Richard Emily Show01:35 - Our viral moment03:07 - Question: Do you think people are staying in tech jobs longer since the pandemic? The old time in role used to be about 2 years right?17:00 - Income worries and diversification20:20 - Question: I see loads of developers become accidental managers, but i don't think that's as common for testers - what do you think?23:40 - Can Testing specialists become Engineering Managers (and beyond)?26:06 - How does being a Quality Engineer impact your chances?28:25 - Lived experience vs coaching31:08 - We're already doing management and leadership32:19 - What career paths are open to people with a testing background?33:59 - Question: Do you think there is a good target ratio of dev:test professionals in greenfield projects? Brownfield projects etc. If not, what sort of thing do you think that depends on?34:40 - It depends! On the project demands35:20 - It depends! On what kind of people are in the team37:10 - It depends! On testability37:33 - And Rich's answer is...39:19 - Sometimes you can't coach your way out of a situation40:50 - It depends! On what good looks like41:25 - It depends! On where the company is in it's life44:35 - Question: My team release software to customers 1-2 times a week. Who do you think should be in that "go/no go" conversation?46:46 - It depends 🤦🏾‍♂️48:16 - go/no go meetings in 2002 versus 2025Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod:01:35 - Our most viral video to dateIt's the short Sometimes it's best to quit your job05:02 - Gary Stevenson, economist, trader, authorGary's websiteGary's YouTube "Gary's Economics"Gary's book "The Trading Game"13:02 - Graham FreeburnHappy retirement Graham!17:00 - Here's the phrase Vernon butchered and what he was trying to convey28:41 - The definition of coachingThe International Coaching Federation (ICF) define coaching as: "Partnering with clients in a thought-provoking and creative process that inspires them to maximize their personal and professional potential."Here's Vernon explaining it during a presentation at Agile Testing Days37:10 - Resources about the 10 Ps of TestabilityArticle on testability featuring the 10 PsThe book Team Guide to Software Testability by Ash Winter & Rob Meaney

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