Hangar DX Podcast

• DevEx Is About Making the Car Faster, Not the Driver

  "Let’s not worry about how fast somebody can run. Let’s assume that they will be fast if they’re in a rocket."In this episode of The Hangar DX podcast, Shahab Malik, DevEx UX Researcher at JP Morgan Chase, discusses researching developers' needs and pain points in a 70,000-engineer organization and advocates for an enablement approach to developer productivity metrics. Chapters00:00 Introduction to Developer Experience and UX Research01:59 The Role of UX Research in Developer Experience05:21 Methodologies in UX Research10:08 Understanding Developer Needs and Pain Points13:59 Metrics and Measuring Developer Productivity20:52 The Importance of System Metrics vs. Individual Metrics27:40 Communicating Developer Experience to Leadership32:43 The Impact of AI on Developer ExperienceAbout Shahab MalikShahab Malik is a UX Researcher at JPMorgan Chase, where he focuses on Developer Experience (DevEx) within the firm’s Internal Developer Platform (IDP). With a PhD in cultural anthropology, Shahab brings both qualitative and quantitative methods to studying human behavior in complex technical environments. About Hangar DX (https://dx.community/)The Hangar is a community of senior DevOps engineers and senior software engineers focused on enhancing the developer experience. This is a space where vetted, experienced professionals can exchange ideas, share hard-earned wisdom, troubleshoot issues, and help each other in their projects and careers.We invite developers who work in DX and platform teams at their respective companies or who are interested in developer productivity to join us!

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• DevOps, AI, and the Future of Engineering with Patrick Debois

  Patrick Debois—widely known as the “Godfather of DevOps” and co-author of The DevOps Handbook—joins Aviator CEO Ankit Jain on The Hangar DX Podcast to explore the parallels between the DevOps movement and today’s AI revolution.In this conversation, Patrick compares AI adoption to the early chaotic days of DevOps and shares his view on how developer roles are shifting from producers to supervisors of AI-generated code, why code reviews and specs still matter, and what the four key patterns of AI Native Development are.About Patrick Debois Patrick Debois is often called the "Godfather of DevOps" for his pioneering role in the movement that reshaped how teams build and ship software. He is the co-author of the DevOps Handbook and principal product engineer at Humans and Code. Patrick's work focuses on helping engineering teams become more productive with AI tooling, and delivering AI-powered products with engineering rigor and good practices. About Hangar DX (https://dx.community/)The Hangar is a community of senior DevOps engineers and senior software engineers focused on enhancing the developer experience. This is a space where vetted, experienced professionals can exchange ideas, share hard-earned wisdom, troubleshoot issues, and help each other in their projects and careers.We invite developers who work in DX and platform teams at their respective companies or who are interested in developer productivity to join us!

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• Everything Wrong With Developer Productivity Metrics with Adam Berry

  "Metrics will not measure developer productivity and will not solve your engineering organization’s problems", say Adam Berry, Staff Engineer at Netflix.Adam sits with Ankit Jain, host of The Hangar DX podcast, to discuss one of the most debated topics in engineering: developer productivity metrics.Adam shares why metrics like the DORA4 were never meant to measure individual productivity, how trust (or lack of it) inside organizations changes the way metrics are used, and why managers often get lost in numbers instead of focusing on narrative and impact.He explains that metrics are a feedback mechanism, the “metrics industrial complex,” and pitfalls of over-measuring, and how to design metrics from scratch. 00:00 Introduction to Developer Productivity Metrics01:23 The Origins of Productivity Metrics07:22 The Obsession with Metrics10:44 Challenges in Measuring Developer Productivity12:33 The Metrics Industrial Complex15:38 The Role of Metrics in Understanding Delivery Performance19:31 Designing Effective Metrics for Organizations21:57 Understanding Quality Issues in Engineering34:32 Measuring Code Quality and Technical Debt39:02 Prioritizing Engineering Challenges41:42 Future of Engineering ProductivityAbout Adam BerryAdam has worked on developer tools and infrastructure throughout his career, from Eclipse plugins to service and infrastructure work; he now focuses on developer platforms as products to empower engineers and make teams and organizations drastically more effective.About Hangar DX (https://dx.community/)The Hangar is a community of senior DevOps engineers and senior software engineers, focused on enhancing the developer experience. This is a space where vetted, experienced professionals can exchange ideas, share hard-earned wisdom, troubleshoot issues, and help each other in their projects and careers.We invite developers who work in DX and platform teams at their respective companies, or who are interested in developer productivity.

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• The Future of Engineering Leadership in the Age of AI

  "In the next 10-15 years, I'm either going to be a CTO cleaning up after AI, or maybe there won't be people like me anymore because we're just going to write the specs and generate the whole app from scratch every time"In this episode of The Hangar DX podcast, Ankit Jain, co-founder and CEO of Aviator, talks to Meri Williams, CTO at  @pleo_io , about what the future looks like for engineering managers in the age of AI coding.Meri also shares why engineering organizations can't thrive without managers, what makes a good engineering manager,  how to scale tech and teams when AI writes the code, and how to prevent accruing tech debt while doing it. 00:00 The Changing Landscape of Engineering Management10:20 Navigating Technical Debt in Software Development19:52 The Future of Engineering Management35:58 Adapting to AI in Engineering ManagementAbout Meri WilliamsMeri is an experienced CTO and leader of technology organisations. They particularly enjoy helping others to level up as technical leaders and managers of organizations by working as a CTO coach and tech advisor / NED to various companies in this capacity through micro-consultancy ChromeRose.About Hangar DX (https://dx.community/)The Hangar is a community of senior DevOps engineers and senior software engineers, focused on enhancing the developer experience. This is a space where vetted, experienced professionals can exchange ideas, share hard-earned wisdom, troubleshoot issues, and help each other in their projects and careers.We invite developers who work in DX and platform teams at their respective companies, or who are interested in developer productivity.

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• Developer Experience in the Age of AI with Chris Westerhold

  “What’s your AI strategy’ is the wrong question for engineering leaders. A better one would be: “What are you doing to improve engineering efficiency by 15–20%?”You don’t have to chase AI just for AI’s sake. Instead, focus on the biggest pain point, on whatever is slowing your teams down. In most orgs, it has nothing to do with needing faster typers.”In this episode of the HangarDX podcast, Ankit Jain, co-founder and CEO of Aviator, talks to Chris Westerhold, Global Practice Director for Engineering Excellence at Thoughtworks, to discuss how AI is fundamentally transforming the developer experience (DevEx). Chris talks about how AI is changing the definition of developer, engineering orgs feeling FOMO of not adopting AI tools instead of focusing on workflow pain points, AI tools adding to cognitive overload, how to evaluate the productivity gains of AI tools, and what’s the right approach to AI strategy when it comes to developer experience. 00:00 Introduction to Developer Experience and AI01:12 The Evolution of Developer Experience04:30 Navigating Tool Proliferation in Software Development09:35 Cognitive Load and Complexity in AI-Driven Development18:04 Finding Focused Solutions Amidst AI Hype20:58 Metrics and Measuring AI Impact34:06 Developing an AI Strategy for Engineering TeamsAbout Chris WesterholdChris is a Global Practice Director for Engineering Excellence at Thoughtworks. He has over 15 years of technology experience across startups and large enterprises, with a significant focus on building scalable engineering teams, engineering metrics strategies, developer platforms, platform engineering, and technical product management. He is a vocal advocate for developer experience and is passionate about using data-driven approaches to improve it.About Hangar DX (https://dx.community/)The Hangar is a community of senior DevOps and senior software engineers focused on developer experience. This is a space where vetted, experienced professionals can exchange ideas, share hard-earned wisdom, troubleshoot issues, and ultimately help each other in their projects and careers.We invite developers who work in DX and platform teams at their respective companies, or who are interested in developer productivity.

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