In this episode, Peep Laja is joined by Kathleen Booth and Dave Gerhardt to unpack the real buying behavior behind B2B SaaS in 2025. They break down the power of dark social, peer communities, and brand storytelling in an era where Google is no longer the first stop. Learn how to win trust, get talked about, and drive growth—without a single paid ad.Chapters:[00:00:00] Buyers No Longer Start on Google[00:01:00] Dark Social Isn’t New[00:02:00] Community Beats Search[00:03:00] Trust Comes From Peers[00:04:00] Why “Dark Social” Caught On[00:05:30] How Real Word-of-Mouth Works[00:06:30] Winning Starts With Being Mentioned[00:07:15] LinkedIn’s Real Role in Buying[00:08:30] You Can’t Game the System[00:09:30] Influencing the Influencers[00:10:30] Brand and Peer Trust Collide[00:11:30] Build a Narrative, Not Just Features[00:12:30] What to Spend on Community[00:14:00] Create Shareworthy Artifacts[00:15:00] Showing Up Consistently Matters[00:16:30] Case Study: Carabiner Group[00:17:30] Making the ROI Case[00:19:00] Track What Actually Matters[00:20:00] Key Takeaways: How to Win
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21:27
Speed's Advantage
Peep Laja dives into why speed is a critical and often underrated competitive advantage in today's fast-paced business world. Learn how to make swift decisions, conduct rapid experiments, ship products and campaigns quickly, and gather market feedback efficiently. Drawing from historical military strategies and modern business practices, Peep explains how speed can help you stay ahead of the competition. Tune in to discover actionable insights on fostering a culture of speed within your organization, optimizing decision-making processes, and enhancing market agility.Chapters[00:00:00] Intro and Importance of Speed[00:01:15] Competitive Noise and Clones[00:02:15] Aggressiveness and Fast Action[00:03:15] Blitzkrieg in Business[00:04:45] Faster Decision Making[00:06:00] Chinese Car Manufacturers[00:07:00] OODA Loops[00:08:00] Innovate Faster[00:09:15] Reducing Waiting Time[00:10:00] Bezos Decision Speed Matrix[00:12:30] Democratizing Decision Making[00:14:30] Meeting Reduction[00:16:45] Copycats and Innovation[00:18:45] Personal Experimentation Failures[00:21:45] Final ThoughtsMy links:X: https://twitter.com/peeplajaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peeplaja/Personal site: https://peeplaja.com/Wynter: https://wynter.com/Speero: https://speero.com/CXL: https://cxl.com/
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22:37
Nail and Scale
In this episode, Peep Laja emphasizes the importance of deeply understanding your target market and ideal customer profile (ICP) to drive growth in B2B SaaS. He advocates for ongoing research to inform effective messaging, breaks down the key components of high-converting copy, and shares how tools like Wynter enable teams to get fast feedback and align around the ICP. By implementing these strategies, companies can speed up feedback loops and gain a competitive edge.[00:00:00] Intro: Winning through market understanding[00:01:22] Importance of regular market research[00:02:30] From annual to ongoing micro-testing[00:04:00] Optimizing for speed to insights[00:05:30] Getting budget for market research[00:06:30] Building mental availability[00:08:00] Balancing short and long-term efforts[00:09:00] Positioning vs. messaging[00:10:28] Four layers of effective messaging[00:12:30] Addressing buyer uncertainty[00:14:00] Communicating customer value[00:15:00] Importance of strong copywriting[00:16:30] Characteristics of good copy[00:17:00] Achieving team alignment[00:18:00] Speeding up feedback loopsMy links:X: https://twitter.com/peeplajaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peeplaja/Personal site: https://peeplaja.com/Wynter: https://wynter.com/Speero: https://speero.com/CXL: https://cxl.com/
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18:52
Start in a Niche
In this episode, Peep dives into why niching down is the key to success for early-stage B2B SaaS companies. He explains how focusing on solving a specific problem for a targeted market, rather than competing directly with industry giants, allows startups to gain traction and dominate their niche. Peep emphasizes that niching down isn't about limiting your dreams, but rather a proven strategy to break into a competitive market and lay the foundation for future growth.Chapters:[00:00] - Introduction[00:30] - Why niching down is crucial for early-stage SaaS[03:30] - Capturing a small market first[08:39] - The importance of differentiation[11:59] - Real-world examples of successful niching[18:03] - Niching is about focus, not limiting dreams[22:10] - Case study: Lattice's niche in performance management[25:28] - When to consider an all-in-one solution[29:44] - Choosing a company name that allows growth[31:09] - Identifying a profitable niche[33:30] - ConclusionMy links:X: https://twitter.com/peeplajaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peeplaja/Personal site: https://peeplaja.com/Wynter: https://wynter.com/Speero: https://speero.com/CXL: https://cxl.com/
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34:06
Scientific Laws of Marketing
In this episode, Peep Laja explores the scientific laws of marketing, focusing on building mental and physical availability for brands. Drawing from the works of Professor Byron Sharpe and the Ehrenberg Bass Institute, Laja emphasizes the importance of being top of mind and easily found when potential customers are ready to make a purchase.The episode features insights from marketing experts who provide real-world examples. Peep also discusses distinctive brand assets, the limitations of hyper-targeting in B2B marketing, and the duplication of purchase law. He concludes by offering practical advice on increasing brand awareness and making target customers remember the brand when they need its product.00:00 - Intro02:00 - Mental and physical availability concepts04:40 - Brand building with Paul Dorsey05:45 - Buying triggers07:05 - HockeyStack's content marketing strategy11:00 - Physical availability in B2B SaaS12:00 - Distinctive brand assets18:45 - SurveyMonkey's rebranding story20:10 - B2B brands lack distinctive assets21:00 - Meaningless distinctiveness vs. differentiation22:20 - Identifying customer values with Wynter23:00 - Reaching all buyers in a category24:30 - Limitations of hyper-targeting26:00 - Category reach and lead generation27:45 - Ad reach and frequency28:50 - Duplication of purchase law30:00 - ConclusionMy links:X: https://twitter.com/peeplajaLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peeplaja/Personal site: https://peeplaja.com/Wynter: https://wynter.com/Speero: https://speero.com/CXL: https://cxl.com/
Hear how successful B2B SaaS companies and agencies compete - and win - in highly saturated categories. No fluff. No filler. Just strategies and tactics from founders, executives, and marketers. Learn about building moats, growing audiences, scaling businesses, and differentiating from the competition. New guests every week. Hosted by Peep Laja, founder at Wynter, Speero, CXL.
Ireland