Erik and Dan are joined by special guest Mike Solana, Editor-in-Chief of Pirate Wires (https://www.piratewires.com/) to discuss the recent AI congressional hearings, political polarization, Elon’s reign at Twitter, and much more. RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Upstream Podcast: https://link.chtbl.com/Upstream YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@UpstreamwithErikTorenberg LINKS: Mike Solana's Interview with Grimes (https://www.piratewires.com/p/base-reality-an-interview-with-grimes-6b3) Dan's sci-fi book recommendation: Delta-v by Daniel Suarez TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Preview of episode (01:44) On what Mike Solana would say to Congress about AI (08:30) Contrasting Zuck, Brian Armstrong, and Sam Altman’s approach to regulation (15:09) Recommendation: Upstream (15:35) Sponsor: Secureframe (16:05) AI doomerism is just marketing for big AI (26:25) Elon’s wins and losses so far as Twitter CEO (38:57) Taylor Lorenz Mythology (41:40) Twitter’s regime change // How the tables have turned. Muahahaha. (45:00) What we’d do if we were Twitter CEO (51:00) Evolution of polarization (59:00) Silver lining of polarization (1:05:00) Distinguishing Elon’s antics from his philosophy (1:14:00) Trump feels more familiar in 2023 vs. 2016 (1:18:00) The right is adopting woke tactics (1:22:00) Social media and depression follow up (1:24:00) Is half of Gen Z non-straight? (1:28:00) Ellen Pao (1:34:30) Is Pirate Wires conservative media? (No) Please support our sponsors: Secureframe - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention MOZ during your demo to get 20% off your first year.

Journalist and author Liel Leibovitz joins Antonio and Erik for a deep discussion that “solves all outstanding Israel issues once and for all.” They discuss what’s going on with Israeli and US politics, Israel’s foundational choice ahead, and why wokeness is not penetrating Israel. LINKS: Liel’s writings for Tablet: https://www.tabletmag.com/contributors/liel-leibovitz RECOMMENDED PODCASTS: Upstream with Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/Upstream Unorthodox from Tablet: https://www.tabletmag.com/tags/unorthodox TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode preview (02:06) Askhenazi vs Sephardic (03:14) Universalism vs Particularism (14:28) Sponsors: Secureframe | MarketerHire (36:08) Christian vs Jewish notions of Justice (48:28) Liel’s political evolution (51:42) Palestinians vs Israelis (59:53) Abraham Accords - Obama vs Trump approach to Israel (1:06:00) What do the left vs right of Israel believe? (1:11:00) What does Netanyahu want (1:15:02) Liel is Long-term bullish, short-term bearish on Israel (1:18:00) Israel isn’t dependent on U.S. anymore (1:28:27) What would Liel’s smartest critic say about this conversation (1:33:52) Future of America / Israel relationship TWITTER: @MOZ_Podcast @liel (Liel) @eriktorenberg (Erik) @antoniogm (Antonio) More shownotes released in our Substack: https://momentofzen.substack.com/ Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention MOZ during your demo to get 20% off your first year. Secureframe has just released Secureframe Trust, a new product that lets you showcase your organization's security posture to build customer trust. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/moz MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/moz and use code MOZ to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire.

Dan and Erik discuss how Elon got coded right-wing, why liberals are more depressed than conservatives, crime and prisons. LINKS: Patrick Collison interviews Sam Altman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1egAKCKPKCk RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Upstream with Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/Upstream TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Episode preview (01:48) Twitter’s new CEO and Elon (8:00) When did Elon become right-wing coded? (14:00) Contrasting Zuck and Elon (15:28) Sponsors: Secureframe | MarketerHire (17:26) Contrasting Elon and Sam Altman (22:00) Elon’s quest to increase “net truth” (28:00) AI race / live players (30:45) Accountability within private vs public sector (33:00) Facebook bull case (39:30) Jonathan Haidt’s anti-facebook case (44:00) Why depression is on the rise (50:00) Why liberals are more depressed than conservatives (58:00) Living in America is higher variance (1:05:00) Different approaches to curbing crime TWITTER: @MOZ_Podcast @eriktorenberg (Erik) @dwr (Dan) More shownotes released in our Substack: https://momentofzen.substack.com/ Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention MOZ during your demo to get 20% off your first year. Secureframe has just released Secureframe Trust, a new product that lets you showcase your organization's security posture to build customer trust. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/moz MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/moz and use code MOZ to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire.

Ben Smith is the co-founder of Semafor and author of the forthcoming book Traffic joins Erik Torenberg and Antonio Garcia Martinez for a discussion about the hostility between tech and media, what digital media startups got wrong, analysis of institutions like The New York Times, and what the future of media holds. Also, check out the debut of Erik's long-form interview podcast Upstream. He most recently interviewed Joe Lonsdale and David Sacks. Subscribe here: https://link.chtbl.com/Upstream REFERENCES: Ben's new book: Traffic: Genius, Rivalry, and Delusion in the Billion-Dollar Race to Go Viral Semafor: https://www.semafor.com/ TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (3:00) Ben Smith’s book “Traffic” 8:00 Buzzfeed’s cultural impact (10:00) Regrets around the Steele Dossier (15:00) Sponsors: Secureframe | MarketerHire (16:30) Objectivity vs subjectivity in journalsim (20:00) Left wing vs right wing journalism (25:20) Tech media (29:00) Cambridge Analytica bullshit (33:00) Buzzfeed Uber controversy (36:30) Tech and media fall out (49:30) The root of tech vs media dissonance (1:05:00) Free speech (1:12:00) “The book is a eulogy to a rotting corpse that got what was coming to it” (1:15:30) Ads vs subscription (1:20:00) Future of media TWITTER: @MOZ_Podcast @semaforben (Ben) @eriktorenberg (Erik) @antoniogm (Antonio) More shownotes released in our Substack: https://momentofzen.substack.com/ Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | MarketerHire - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention MOZ during your demo to get 20% off your first year. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/moz MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/moz and use code MOZ to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire. Thank you Graham Bessellieu for production.

Katherine joins Erik, Antonio, and Dan to discuss the hidden forces that shape founders, major divides in tech, and whether she should join our show as a cohost. Check out Erik's long-form interview podcast "Upstream with Erik Torenberg" wherever you get your podcasts. He most recently interviewed Joe Lonsdale, David Sacks, and more. TIMESTAMPS: (00:00) Intro (5:00) Fatherhood and founders (10:00) What is “Seriousness” (13:39) Sponsors: Secureframe | MarketerHire (16:00) Elon (20:30) Software and hardware (26:30) Are founders psychologically off? (35:00) SpaceX and Starship (43:00) Where would Steve Jobs be today? (48:00) Twitter and Substack (1:07:00) Florida is a COVID phenomenon, not a ZIRP phenomenon (1:17:00) Can we pressure Katherine join Moment of Zen as the fourth cohost? (1:18:00) Sending kids to Catholic school TWITTER: @MOZ_Podcast @KTmBoyle @eriktorenberg @dwr @antoniogm More shownotes released in our Substack: https://momentofzen.substack.com/ *Please support our sponsors: Secureframe | MarketerHire* - Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/ Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention MOZ during your demo to get 20% off your first year. - MarketerHire: https://marketerhire.com/moz MarketerHire is one of my favorite resources for growing startups looking to hire marketers. With 1000s of pre-vetted marketers across a dozen roles, whether you need help with growth, marketing, SEO, lifecycle, content, or any other aspect of growth marketing strategy. Over 5,000 companies already use MarketerHire to hire expert marketers on demand, ranging from top venture-backed startups to the most well-known Fortune 500s. Go to marketerhire.com/moz and use code MOZ to get your $1,000 credit for your first hire. Thank you Graham Bessellieu for production.