"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

• 402 Payment Required: a New Way for AI Agents to Pay, with Nemil Dalal, Dev Platform Lead @ Coinbase

  Nemil Dalal from Coinbase discusses the x402 protocol, a new open standard that enables AI agents to make cryptocurrency payments for online resources using the long-dormant HTTP 402 "Payment Required" status code. The conversation covers stablecoin fundamentals, including how they work and who maintains their stability, before exploring how crypto wallets with multi-signature capabilities could protect AI agents from adversarial attacks while keeping humans in control. They examine forward-looking questions about whether this technology could finally create a viable alternative to advertising models, what happens when millions of AI agents have wallets, and the need for reputation systems in an agent economy. The discussion highlights how cryptocurrency, originally designed to be beyond nation-state control, might become the perfect enabling technology for AI economic participation. Sponsors: Google Gemini 2.5 Flash: Build faster, smarter apps with customizable reasoning controls that let you optimize for speed and cost. Start building at https://aistudio.google.com Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 42,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

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• 2-Sigma in 2 Hours: How Alpha Schools are Using AI to Revolutionize Education

  MacKenzie Price, founder of Alpha School & 2 Hour Learning, discusses her revolutionary educational model that uses AI to enable students to master traditional academics in just 2 hours per day while achieving 2.3x faster learning rates than statistical models predict. The conversation explores how Alpha School combines adaptive learning apps with personalized curriculum systems rather than giving students direct chatbot access, and how this frees up afternoons for field trips, independent projects, and interest exploration. They discuss the transformation of teachers into "Guides" who focus entirely on motivation, mentorship, and emotional support rather than content delivery, creating transformative relationships with every student as the rule rather than the exception. The episode reveals how this AI-powered approach maintains rigorous academic standards while potentially revolutionizing education without disrupting the teaching profession. Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:01) Introduction and Welcome (04:26) AI Revolution in Education (06:45) Two Sigma Effect Explained (10:49) Understanding Two Sigma Results (Part 1) (16:28) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | The AGNTCY (18:28) Understanding Two Sigma Results (Part 2) (18:28) AI Scalability and Efficiency (22:39) AI Tutor Experience Design (30:48) Technology Evolution at Alpha (38:29) Early AI Implementation (Part 1) (38:36) Sponsor: NetSuite by Oracle (39:59) Early AI Implementation (Part 2) (45:43) Fifth Grade Math Investigation (49:51) Future of Personalized Learning (54:48) Multimodal Learning Experiences (58:52) Role of Guides (01:05:25) Hiring and Teacher Transformation (01:10:27) Economics and Scalability (01:18:03) DIY Education Advice (01:22:10) Outro

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  1:25:21
• Living Lindy: a No-BS Conversation on AI Agents with Flo Crivello

  Flo Crivello, CEO of AI agent platform Lindy, provides a candid deep dive into the current state of AI agents, cutting through hype to reveal what's actually working in production versus what remains challenging. The conversation explores practical implementation details including model selection, fine-tuning, RAG systems, tool design philosophy, and why most successful "AI agents" today are better described as intelligent workflows with human-designed structure. Flo shares insights on emerging capabilities like more open-ended agents, discusses his skepticism about extrapolating current progress trends too far into the future, and explains why scaffolding will remain critical even as we approach AGI. This technical discussion is packed with practical nuggets for AI engineers and builders working on agent systems. Sponsors: Google Gemini: Google Gemini features VEO3, a state-of-the-art AI video generation model in the Gemini app. Sign up at https://gemini.google.com Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

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• Embryology of AI: How Training Data Shapes AI Development w/ Timaeus' Jesse Hoogland & Daniel Murfet

  Jesse Hoogland and Daniel Murfet, founders of Timaeus, introduce their mathematically rigorous approach to AI safety through "developmental interpretability" based on Singular Learning Theory. They explain how neural network loss landscapes are actually complex, jagged surfaces full of "singularities" where models can change internally without affecting external behavior—potentially masking dangerous misalignment. Using their Local Learning Coefficient measure, they've demonstrated the ability to identify critical phase changes during training in models up to 7 billion parameters, offering a complementary approach to mechanistic interpretability. This work aims to move beyond trial-and-error neural network training toward a more principled engineering discipline that could catch safety issues during training rather than after deployment. Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:44) Introduction and Background (06:17) Timaeus Origins and Philosophy (09:13) Mathematical Background and SLT (12:27) Developmental Interpretability Approach (Part 1) (16:09) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | The AGNTCY (Cisco) (18:09) Developmental Interpretability Approach (Part 2) (19:24) Proto-Paradigm and SAEs (24:37) Understanding Generalization (30:15) Central Dogma Framework (Part 1) (32:13) Sponsor: NetSuite by Oracle (33:37) Central Dogma Framework (Part 2) (34:35) Loss Landscape Geometry (40:41) Degeneracies and Evidence (47:25) Structure and Data Connection (55:36) Essential Dynamics and Algorithms (01:00:53) Implicit Regularization and Complexity (01:07:19) Double Descent and Scaling (01:09:55) Big Picture Applications (01:17:17) Reward Hacking and Risks (01:25:19) Future Training Vision (01:32:01) Scaling and Next Steps (01:36:43) Outro

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  1:39:54
• Embryology of AI: How Training Data Shapes AI Development w/ Timaeus' Jesse Hoogland & Daniel Murfet

  Jesse Hoogland and Daniel Murfet, founders of Timaeus, introduce their mathematically rigorous approach to AI safety through "developmental interpretability" based on Singular Learning Theory. They explain how neural network loss landscapes are actually complex, jagged surfaces full of "singularities" where models can change internally without affecting external behavior—potentially masking dangerous misalignment. Using their Local Learning Coefficient measure, they've demonstrated the ability to identify critical phase changes during training in models up to 7 billion parameters, offering a complementary approach to mechanistic interpretability. This work aims to move beyond trial-and-error neural network training toward a more principled engineering discipline that could catch safety issues during training rather than after deployment. Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) Teaser (04:44) About the Episode (09:28) Introduction and Background (11:01) Timaeus Origins and Philosophy (14:18) Mathematical Foundations and SLT (17:11) Developmental Interpretability Approach (Part 1) (20:53) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | The AGNTCY (22:53) Developmental Interpretability Approach (Part 2) (24:08) Proto-Paradigm and SAEs (29:21) Generalization Theory Deep Dive (34:59) Central Dogma Framework (Part 1) (36:57) Sponsor: NetSuite by Oracle (38:21) Central Dogma Framework (Part 2) (39:19) Loss Landscape Geometry (45:25) Degeneracies and Singularities (52:09) Structure and Generalization (01:00:20) Essential Dynamics Research (01:05:04) Grokking vs Typical Learning (01:12:03) Double Descent Discussion (01:14:39) Interpretability and Alignment Applications (01:22:01) Reward Hacking and Overgeneralization (01:30:03) Future Training Vision (01:36:20) Scaling and Compute Requirements (01:38:19) Future Research Directions (01:41:27) Outro

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  1:44:39

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