The Media Leader Podcast

One of the fastest moving parts of the marketing industry is GEO, or generative engine optimisation.
As AI search proliferates on Google, on ChatGPT, on Claude, brands are wanting to influence how results related to them are shown to users. For Google and ChatGPT, that could include through paid advertising, but the organic effort is seemingly just as important, much in the same way that search engine optimisation (SEO) has been.
GEO presents a unique challenge, however. There is currently a relative lack of data flowing from AI companies to brands and agencies; it’s not always clear why and how a large language model decides to reference or pull in information about brands; meanwhile, AI search has led to a decline in clickthrough rates not only to publishers, but also to brand websites, vastly changing the online consumer journey and making it harder to prove exactly how GEO is working.
Amy Banks was recently promoted at Havas Media Network UK to become head of both SEO and GEO.
She spoke to host Jack Benjamin about how she’s developing strategies in GEO for clients and whether or not consumers can really trust what they see in AI search if marketing teams are constantly trying to influence it.
Highlights:
4:02: The evolution of GEO and why data is a limiting factor
9:00: Who is winning the AI search market?
19:25: How GEO is linking with paid search, social and PR
21:38: The impact of declining referral traffic to brand websites
24:47: Does GEO undermine consumer trust in AI search?
Related articles:
AI search is reducing traffic to brand websites — but not sales
Who owns GEO? That’s the wrong question
GEO is an e-bike, not a spaceship

Publishers are not sitting idle as AI companies scrape their websites and cite their content in response to queries without permission. As their business models are turned upside down by sharply declining referral traffic from search, they are fighting back. That starts with understanding precisely how AI companies are scraping their content.
In February, a coalition of leading UK news publishers founded the Standards for Publisher Usage Rights, or SPUR, an effort to develop and formalize a way for AI companies to make use of journalism in a way that protects publishers’ intellectual property.
Dubbed “NATO for news” by FT CEO Jon Slade, the coalition has since rapidly expanded beyond its original founding members, and in June it released what’s known as a draft telemetry standard, an effort aimed at providing the technical foundation and shared language necessary to understand how AI systems use publisher content. With this knowledge, publishers can then start to create informed licensing deals with AI companies.
Alex Springer is the technical lead at the SPUR Coalition.
He spoke with The Media Leader about SPUR’s work, and whether publishers have finally developed the leverage needed to get AI companies to pay fair value for the work they’ve been allegedly stealing.
Highlights:
4:10: Redefining publisher value in the AI era
11:11: The SPUR Coalition: Goals, technical developments, and building co-equal relationships with AI companies
20:01: Can the long tail of the web be protected from AI copyright theft?
26:41: Is the publishing industry being incentivised to improve quality?
35:22: SPUR's draft telemetry standard: what it is and how it works
43:04: What a new marketplace between publishers and AI companies could look like
51:44: Government interventions and development timeline
Related articles:
Telemetry: the key to solving AI’s valuation and measurement crisis
‘The first tremors in an earthquake’: Digital publisher revenues decline 4.6% amid falling referral traffic
How publishers are fighting to protect their copyright from AI companies

Every year, The Media Leader and its parent Adwanted UK celebrate the best of UK media research at the Adwanted Media Research Awards (AMRAs).
Robust media research is an important industry resource. It helps inform and steer conversation and our understanding of marketing best practice – as well as the incentives that often get in the way of implementing it.
This year’s awards include 6 new categories and 22 in total, covering every element of media research. One notable new award is the Denise Turner Award for Best Use of Joint Industry Data in a Research Project, in honour of the late media researcher and friend of The Media Leader, who died last autumn.
This year’s awards will be open for entry beginning Tuesday the 1st of September, with an early bird deadline on Wednesday the 7th of October and a standard deadline on Wednesday the 14th of October.
Ahead of the opening, host Jack Benjamin sat down with this year’s judging panel co-chairs Dan Flynn and Graeme Griffiths.
Flynn and Griffiths are joint directors of media research for the Institute of Practitioners in Advertising (IPA). They jointly succeeded Turner in the role in February of this year.
Apart from leading the development of the IPA’s TouchPoints research and other industry benchmark surveys like the IPA Agency Census, they also represent the IPA on all of the major joint-industry currencies.
The pair spoke recently about what makes for exceptional media research, why research isn’t always put into practice, and what innovations JICs can and should be driving to better meet the needs of advertisers.
Highlights:
7:33: Judging the AMRAs: What makes for good media research?
10:23: Why doesn't research always lead to impact and behavioural change?
19:50: New AMRA awards and Denise Turner's legacy
24:49: How JICs need to evolve to meet advertiser demands
30:06: The Barb-YouTube relationship and agency demand for new JICs for platforms and podcasting
35:22: Is Origin the way to cross-media measurement nirvana?
42:29: The future of media research: AI, synthetic data, and in-housing research
Related articles:
AMRAs add six categories including Denise Turner award
Measurement can’t be an afterthought — with IPA’s Denise Turner
A round-up of some of the best research of the year
Podcasting needs its own JIC – Jack Davenport, Goalhanger CEO
Will YouTube’s new definition of a ‘view’ undermine its effort to tap into TV budgets?

Within the publishing market, one segment that has seen turbulence over the past few years has been freesheets. As the pandemic disrupted commuting, trains and tubes added Wi-Fi, and hybrid working became the norm, the number of people reading the paper on their daily commute dropped.
This had downstream effects on some of the UK’s oldest papers. The Evening Standard became The Standard, moving from a daily to a weekly paper and emphasizing its website. Metro, which remains the UK’s highest-circulation paper, has seen several restructures and moved in and out of profitability as it has also worked to invest in its digital and social products.
Now, facing declining clickthrough rates to websites because of Google’s changes to search, these news outlets are having to adapt again. As freesheets, they are entirely reliant on advertising as a business model, putting them at the coal face of changes in reader behaviour both offline and on.
Deborah Arthurs is editor-in-chief of Metro. Jo Mazenko is commercial director of Metro.
Last month, host Jack Benjamin joined them at Mail Metro Media’s offices in Kensington to discuss how the title has had to adapt to the changing publishing market.
"Metro was born around the commute, but the day doesn't stop when you get off the train," said Mazenko. "It's about finding new ways to connect to people [and] keep the conversation going throughout the day."
Highlights:
7:25: Metro's up-and-down journey since the pandemic and changed distribution strategy
15:13: How editorial and commercial can work together while maintaining church and state
21:17: Managing the road to Google Zero by prioritising quality over quantity
26:10: Selling print in 2026 and moving into live events
33:49: The importance of habit formation
38:01: How commuting has changed
Related articles:
‘Fresh team, fresh approach’: Mail Metro Media on becoming a ‘modern broadcast publisher’
Fewer ads drive more attention on websites, finds Lumen and Mail Metro Media
‘The first tremors in an earthquake’: Digital publisher revenues decline 4.6% amid falling referral traffic

To mark the 10th anniversary of AudioTrack, the UK's commercial audio delivery service owned and operated by Adwanted. The Media Leader Podcast joined the AudioTrack team for a deep dive into audio creative. In this bumper episode, host Charli West brings together five industry experts across three conversations.
First, producer-director Pam Myers (Rojek) and radio data analyst Jason Brownley (ColorText) share their favourite audio campaigns, from Carpetways' regional cult following to the Compare the Market Meerkats, and make the case for authenticity, long-term consistency, and Byron Sharp's conception of distinctiveness. They also unpack the Ehrenberg-Bass 95% rule and what it means for how brands should think about the role of audio at every stage of the buyer journey.
Next, Silke Zedcher, VP of Global Commercial Partnerships at AudioStack, traces a decade of change in how consumers experience audio, from single-platform broadcast to the always-on, personalised audio environments that smart speakers, streaming and podcast ecosystems now make possible. She argues that AI-powered dynamic creative is the technology that finally allows audio to fulfil its potential as a data-driven, omni-channel format.
Finally, freelance audio producer and director Nick Angel and Matt Hopper, founder and CEO of Trisonic, offer a frank assessment of where AI genuinely helps in the creative process . And where it doesn't. From voice cloning concerns to the EU AI Act's disclosure proposals, they make the case that audio advertising remains a craft, and that no amount of automation changes the fundamental question: does it bear repetition?
This episode was produced in partnership with AudioTrack.