The Unscripted SEO Interview Podcast

In this episode of the Unscripted SEO Podcast, Jeremy Rivera sits down with Paul Baterina, Senior SEO Manager at REVOLVE — a publicly traded fashion e-commerce brand with over 260,000 products. Paul has been at REVOLVE for 13 years, making him one of the rarest SEOs in the industry: a specialist who went deep on one brand instead of bouncing across industries.

What We Cover

Why long-tail category pages became REVOLVE's most provable SEO strategy — and how Paul sold it to C-suite

The 3-product rule for deciding when a category page is worth creating vs. when to kill it

Why luxury fashion brands resist text-heavy SEO content — and how to work with that, not against it

The honest state of AI/LLM visibility for a major e-commerce brand: $58K/month in LLM-driven revenue and what that actually means

How to reverse-engineer LLM citations to find the best places to get your brand mentioned

Link context signals — why what's around a link matters as much as the link itself

Bill Slawski's patent analysis work and how it connects to Koray Tugberk's topical authority framework

A live SEO test showing a 25% lift in organic traffic from adding content to long-tail pages

Resources & Links

REVOLVE (revolve.com) — Paul's employer and the e-commerce brand discussed throughout

Unscripted SEO Podcast — Subscribe for more unscripted SEO conversations

Jeremy Rivera — Host — About your host

Keyword Clusters Based on SERP Data — SEO Arcade — Understanding how Google groups related queries

Opportunity Sizing in SEO — SEO Arcade — How to quantify SEO wins for C-suite

White-Label Link Building Services — SEO Arcade — Community-based and podcast-based link building

Podcast-Based Content & Link Building — SEO Arcade — The full PAASS service

SEO By The Sea — Bill Slawski's Google patent research (search "Bill Slawski SEO By The Sea")

Find Paul Baterina

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-baterina-079ab629/

Twitter: https://x.com/paulbaterina

Slack: SEO Community & Asians In Search (run by George Nguyen)

Conferences: SearchLove San Diego

Unscripted SEO Podcast

️ Listen: unscriptedseo.com Guest: Timothy Malmros on LinkedIn

Full Episode dialog with Timothy Malmros exposing blackhat SEO on SEO Arcade

Guest Bio

Timothy Malmros is a former gambling affiliate SEO with nearly two decades in the industry. After retiring from active affiliation, he turned his focus to investigating and documenting black hat SEO techniques — particularly in the gambling and sweepstakes space — through detailed posts on LinkedIn. His work offers a rare, transparent look at how spam tactics actually function, why they succeed, and why Google takes so long to stop them.

In his own words: 
"Finished 12th grade. Got fired from Mcdonalds. Moved to Israel back in 2005. Applied to 20 jobs, got one reply and started working as a ”live person” human chatbot in an online casino. Promoted to affiliate manager 10 months later, did that for a bit over a year.

Decided, lets try to become an affiliate, if I after a year can earn 3000 euro a month I wont go back to school. Sold my company in 2016 to gaming innovation group, joined as director of seo as employee nr 6 for gig media. Gig media grew to 200+ people and became a bit to pc for me, quit in 2018, rebuilt going hard on grey hat SEO then decided to take a break from the stress of SEO in November 2024 and basically retire but quickly got bored and started writing articles instead."

Follow Timothy's ongoing research: linkedin.com/in/timothy-m-59a216b/

Episode Summary

In this episode, Jeremy Rivera sits down with Timothy Malmros — a former gambling affiliate SEO turned black hat investigator — for a wide-ranging, candid conversation about how spam evolves, why Google keeps losing the spam war, and what the rise of AI really means for the internet's content ecosystem.

Timothy shares his hands-on research into drop domains and the canonical trick, a modern black hat method that combines expired high-authority domains with spam link bombardment and canonical redirects to game Google's rankings in the gambling and sweepstakes space. The conversation expands into Trust Rank theory, click metric manipulation, the collapse of the anti-spam team, and the disturbing implications of AI-generated content replacing original human publishing.

A refreshingly honest, technically deep episode for anyone who wants to understand what's actually happening beneath the surface of modern search.

Key Topics Covered

How black hat SEO evolved from hidden white-text links and site counter injection to the sophisticated drop domain / canonical trick

What the canonical trick is and how it creates an infinite $10 ranking loop using expired high-authority domains

Why gambling markets reveal emerging black hat techniques before any other niche

Trust Rank theory and the Medic update — distance from seed sites and why Healthline beat Dr. Josh Axe overnight

Why some drop domains work and others don't — the mixed signals Timothy is still investigating

The dismantling of Google's anti-spam team and its connection to the ChatGPT competitive threat

HCU as the reintroduction of Panda/Penguin — and whether it's algorithmic or hybrid

Google creating then killing its own monsters — from recipe sites to AI overviews

Click metric manipulation: Android bot farms with VPN rotation and what fake branding actually looks like

Rank tracker visits inflating GSC impressions — and why Google finally cut off 100-page results

Reddit as a...

Benas Leonavicius
Freelance SEO Consultant & Agency Builder
Website | LinkedIn | Substack

Benas Leonavicius has spent 10 years in the SEO trenches—from working with large e-commerce sites to navigating the bureaucratic nightmare of enterprise SaaS SEO. Now he's building an agency focused on keynote speakers, authors, and coaches, where basic SEO fundamentals deliver outsized results.

In this conversation, we dive deep into:

Why AI search optimization is the new frontier (and why tracking is nearly impossible)

How to actually appear in ChatGPT and AI overviews

The shift from website-centric to entity-centric SEO

Why SaaS companies are terrible clients for freelance SEO scalability

The #1 thing keynote speakers get wrong (hint: they don't mention their keywords)

Whether new people should enter SEO in 2025

If you're a freelancer trying to scale, a speaker trying to get found, or anyone wondering how AI is changing search—this episode is for you.

Key Topics Discussed

AI Search Optimization (11:11 - 21:03)

The biggest challenge with AI search: tracking is nearly impossible

How ChatGPT and Perplexity source their answers (training data + tiered Google searches)

Why speaker bureaus and listicles dominate AI search results for keynote speakers

The 25% consistency problem: AI gives different answers to different users

Backlinks, PR, mentions, and social media as the foundation of AI visibility

How to reverse-engineer AI sources by simply asking ChatGPT what it referenced

The SaaS SEO Nightmare (03:47 - 07:34)

Why SaaS companies limit freelancer scalability (1-2 clients max per month)

The JIRA ticket trap: submitting tickets just to edit meta descriptions

Managing multiple stakeholders with competing priorities

How product changes constantly disrupt long-term SEO strategy

Why Benas stopped taking SaaS clients despite their lucrative budgets

Keynote Speaker SEO Opportunities (02:14 - 03:47, 25:19 - 28:10)

Why 90% of speakers have zero SEO optimization

The differentiation trap: avoiding keywords to sound unique

The highest ROI fix: adding proper meta titles with target keywords

Why speakers already have strong websites—they just don't know it

Talk Thrive Agency: Benas's keynote speaker SEO service

Content vs. Links vs. Technical SEO (07:34 - 09:07)

Why Benas focuses on on-page content optimization

Link building feels "solved" and basic in 2025

Technical SEO's limitations for most businesses

Finding the middle ground between all three domains

AI Content Creation Reality Check (09:07 - 11:11)

ChatGPT as "your most popular but least trained customer support rep" (Matt Brooks, SEOteric)

Why Benas doesn't jump on new AI tools immediately

Using AI as a brainstorming and first draft tool, not a final solution

The hallucination and authenticity problem with over-reliance

Entity SEO vs. Website SEO (15:21 - 20:08)

How LLMs use training databases and tiered search results

Getting third-party content ranked, even when it's not on your site

Why digital visibility is shifting from website-centric to entity-centric

Direct traffic increasing as people find brands through AI, not clicks

Impressions mattering more than clicks (the Instagram-ification of search)

Should You Freelance in SEO Today? (21:03 - 23:24)

Why...

In this episode, Jeremy Rivera sits down with Jeremy Yang, founder of Digital Goliath, to explore the often-siloed world of paid advertising and how it intersects with SEO. Managing over $450,000 in monthly ad spend, Jeremy Yang shares brutal truths about Google Ads setup mistakes, the death of exact match keywords, and why most businesses fail at Meta advertising before they even start.

From offshore Google support nightmares to the "bullets in the chamber" framework for platform selection, this conversation reveals what seven years of hands-on PPC experience teaches you about digital marketing that no certification ever will.

Guest

Jeremy Yang
Founder, Digital Goliath
Website | LinkedIn

Jeremy founded Digital Goliath seven years ago and currently manages about $450,000 per month in ad spend across Google Ads and Meta platforms. Based in Sydney, Australia, he works with small to mid-sized businesses and white labels for larger agencies, specializing in high-accountability, hands-on campaign management.

Key Topics Discussed

The SEO-SEM Divide (00:00 - 05:00)

Why paid ads and SEO teams rarely communicate

Operational intensity differences between channels

Knowledge-sharing culture in PPC vs. SEO communities

Why Google gives advertisers more data than SEOs get

Google Ads Setup Nightmares (05:00 - 10:00)

The fox guarding the henhouse: letting Google set up your campaigns

Offshore vs. onshore Google support experiences

Most common setup errors (cramming everything into one campaign)

Why following scripts doesn't work in modern PPC

The Death of Exact Match (10:00 - 15:00)

How Google Ads has shifted to theme-based campaigns

Everything is "broad-ish" now regardless of match type settings

Competitor brands sneaking into your keyword auctions

Performance Max and the return of negative lists

ROAS-based campaign structuring for e-commerce

Display Ads: Remarketing Only (15:00 - 20:00)

Why display should only be used for remarketing

The spammy site problem and how to exclude them

Diminishing returns on display, YouTube, and discovery feeds

Strategic use of minimal display budgets ($10-20) for brand presence

Platform Selection Framework (20:00 - 30:00)

"How many bullets you got in the chamber?" - the content asset question

Meta is about burnout: why you need consistent creative production

When to go 80% Google, 20% Bing (service businesses without video)

When Meta makes sense (businesses with UGC and video capabilities)

Real-world example: Bubble.com Casting (children's modeling agency)

Cost Realities Nobody Discusses (30:00 - 35:00)

High-CPC industries: $200/click for tow trucks, $150/click for credit cards

Why $30/click for lawyers isn't unusual

Budget requirements for competitive industries

When to rely on Performance Max vs. traditional search campaigns

SEO Value Proposition for Small Business (35:00 - 45:00)

If you run out of ad budget, your campaign's over

SEO builds appreciable assets that compound over time

The upscale effect vs. the burn rate of paid ads

Working with ads teams to target expensive keywords organically

Client filtering: not every client is worth acquiring

AI Overviews and the Future of Search (45:00 - 55:00)

ChatGPT ads platform: $60-80 CPMs for businesses spending $1M+

The "charge and forget" model vs. nuanced ad platforms

AI overview impact: 25-40% traffic loss for publisher sites

The mea...

Summary

In this episode of the Unscripted SEO podcast, Keith Breseé and Cauveé, the inspiration engineer, delve into the intricacies of content marketing. They discuss the importance of platforms like Substack and Beehive for community building, the necessity of finding one's niche, and the long-term strategies required for effective content creation. The conversation also covers the significance of understanding market gaps, leveraging influencer marketing, and the role of paid advertising. Additionally, they emphasize the importance of crafting effective hooks, storytelling, and utilizing AI tools for content creation. The episode concludes with insights on building relationships and the long game in personal branding.

 

Takeaways

Substack is a powerful tool for building a community.

Decide whether to follow trends or focus on your passion.

Always provide value in your content to generate leads.

Content creation is a long-term commitment.

Reverse engineer your content strategy from your goals.

Understand your market and conduct competitor analysis.

Influencer marketing can significantly boost visibility.

Paid advertising can help in gaining traction.

Mastering hooks and storytelling is crucial for engagement.

Building relationships is key to long-term success.