169: Richard Shotton and MichaelAaron Flicker on hacking the human mind.
This week we broke a golden rule and crossed podcast streams with a pair of excellent guests, Richard Shotton and MichaelAaron Flicker, hosts of the Behavioural Science for Brands podcast and co-authors of the soon-to-be released (and definitely-to-be brilliant) Hacking The Human Mind.
Richard is, of course, returning for a record third appearance on Call To Action® although we have respectfully honoured his request to not be left alone with Giles. Responsible for opening industry eyes to the potential of behavioural science, Richard is the author of two books that serious marketing types like you and I could not do without – The Choice Factory and The Illusion of Choice.
Alongside him today, as is so often the case, is MichaelAaron Flicker, founder and president of (Zeeenno-Sigh) XenoPsi Ventures, a brand incubator firm that helps out all kinds of companies with financial, marketing and intellectual capital. As well as co-hosting their pod, and co-authoring their book, they’ve completed a hattrick of Co’s by co-founding the Consumer Behaviour Lab, where they apply their considerable collective knowledge to help make marketing smarter, better and less stinky.
In an episode where we open the sunroof on the human mind and reveal there’s much more to it than day dreams, crippling doubt and song lyrics from 1996, we hear from two of the field’s most compelling experts on what it really takes for a brand to be chosen.
This episode is proudly dedicated to Rory Sutherland.
Follow Richard and MichaelAaron on LinkedIn.
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Timestamps
08:27 - Reflections on Career Path and Pivots
10:09 - Richard's Tribute to Ozzy Osbourne
12:39 - How Richard and Michael Met
14:22 - The Concept Behind Their New Book
16:01 - Writing Process and Collaboration Insights
20:21 - Discussion on Haagen-Dazs and Country of Origin Effect
25:04 - The Power of Naming: Patagonian Toothfish vs. Chilean Sea Bass
30:07 - Marketing Confusion Between Marketing and Sales
Their Book Recommendations are:
Alchemy by Rory Sutherland
Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg
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168: Professor Byron Sharp on a lifetime of learning in the marketing world
This week we tucked in our shirt, straightened our tie and resisted the temptation to nip off for a quick vape behind the pickle-ball court, all in order to suitably impress our guest, one of the world’s greatest marketing academics, Professor Byron Sharp.
A man who would need no introduction (if we weren’t contractually obliged to provide all our pod guests with one) Prof Byron is one of the world’s most respected thinkers in the field of brands and consumer behaviour.
Unless you’re deliberately trying to get yourself fired from your marketing role, you’ll no doubt have read his seminal book ‘How Brands Grow’ and, if you’re especially lucky, you may well have learned directly from the man himself in one of his globally prestigious academic roles.
A speaker, a teacher, a thinker and a pioneering researcher, Byron still has the time to be a thoroughly entertaining podcast guest, and is famously happy to share the kind of knee-buckling market truth that the industry fears but also really, really needs.
In an episode where Byron jabs a scholarly finger into the flabby thinking that holds brands back, we ponder the many different disciplines a proper marketer should be able to wrap their heads around if they want a consumer to care.
This episode is proudly dedicated to John Scriven.
Follow Byron on LinkedIn
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Timestamps
03:27 - Early Jobs and Academia
04:38 - The Importance of Real-World Experience
06:09 - Working with Andrew Ehrenberg
08:28 - The Intent Behind "How Brands Grow"
09:41 - Marketing Blind Spots and Unexplored Areas
10:30 - Cognitive Biases and Behavioral Science
11:48 - The Role of Heuristics in Consumer Behavior
12:43 - Understanding Double Jeopardy Law
14:08 - Consumer Efficiency vs. Laziness
15:26 - Predictive Power of Marketing Science
16:06 - The Weirdness of the Real World
17:37 - Misconceptions About Marketing Science
19:40 - The Role of Synthetic Research
32:58 - B2B Marketing and Growth Strategies
35:22 - The Value of Awards in Marketing
Byron's Book recommendations are:
The Halo Effect by Phil Rosenzweig
Everything is Obvious by Duncan Watts
The Signal and the Noise by Nate Silver
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167: Lisa Parfitt on doing the business for women’s sport.
This week we’re pushing our withered hamstrings way beyond their wretched limits, all in order to win the attention of our guest, sport and brand marketing super-baller Lisa Parfitt.
In a career that has been, figuratively, one top bin after the other, Lisa has done more than most to give women’s sport a serious platform, particularly when it comes to those all-important commercial relationships.
A star player in the efforts to land the Women’s FA Cup their first brand sponsorship, Lisa can be found on the prestigious pages of PR Week’s Power 100 for her work in pushing for greater representation for women in the sports business.
Having gone toe-to-toe with the inequalities in the game in her time as both a Level 1 coach and director, she now devotes her considerable skills and stamina to creating better, fairer and more sustainable partnerships, sponsorships and culture in the game.
In an episode with absolutely no time wasting, even for the occasional glug of branded energy pop, we ponder everything from the unique brand value of fans of women sport, to how the game is changing, in both sporting and commercial ways.
This episode is proudly dedicated to Karen Earl.
Follow Lisa on LinkedIn.
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Timestamps
04:34 - Transitioning to the Sports Industry
10:31 - First Job in Women's Sport
12:18 - The Shift to Sponsorship and Commercial Focus
15:32 - The Role of Brands in Women's Sport
20:10 - Securing the First Women's FA Cup Partnership
26:32 - The Impact of COVID on Women's Sport
30:35 - Research on Women's Sports Fans Engagement
36:59 - The Future of Women's Sport and Upcoming Events
42:06 - Changing Perceptions in Women's Sport
Lisa's Book Recommendations are:
Eat Sweat Play - Anna Kessel
Why She Buys - Bridget Brennan
Game On - Sue Anstiss
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166: Harriet Knight and Hannah Penn on an agency world that’s open to all
This week we made difficult phone-calls to Ant & Dec, Torvill & Dean and, accidentally, the Neville Brothers, all in order to explain that the nation now has a new favourite double act – the joint chiefs of Pablo, Harriet Knight and Hannah Penn.
Not content with leading Pablo to the very top of the creative charts in agency land – scooping up the Global Campaign Indie of the Year award on two separate occasions – H&H have set about tearing up the dusty old rulebook for agency leadership (especially all those pages about being greedy and horrible). They’ve poured their considerable energies into actually delivering the kind of culture every agency pretends they have, and even launched the Pablo Living Wage, a £30,000 minimum salary for entry level roles that opens up the industry to people who are usually left on the side-lines.
As well as turning Pablo into the creative, and cultural envy of agency world, Harriet and Hannah are also responsible for one of the most successful agency models around – earning a reputation for being superb to work with that translates into a barely believable 100% client retention rate.
In an episode that puts us all in the uncomfortable position of listening to agency bosses who are actually likeable and amusing, we ponder everything from how agency cultures are created to the dynamics that make their partnership tick.
This episode is proudly dedicated to Dan Watts.
Follow Hannah and Harriet on LinkedIn.
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Timestamps
03:00 - Early Career Paths: Hannah's Journey
09:00 - Harriet's Background and Transition to Advertising
15:00 - The Importance of Diverse Experiences in Advertising
18:00 - Creative and Commercial Balance in Advertising
22:00 - How Harriet and Hannah Met
25:00 - The Dynamics of Their Partnership
29:00 - Legacy and Impact in the Advertising Industry
Hannah and Harriet’s Book Recommendations are:
Four Thousand Weeks– Oliver Burkeman
Cork Dork – Bianca Bosko
Super Communicators- Charles Duhigg
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165: Charlie Copsey on bringing fans experiences that aren’t f*ing boring
This week we tried to arrange a VIP brand event for Call To Action® fans in an abandoned toilet brush factory, all just to prove our cool credentials to Charlie Copsey, the founder of Underground Fan Club.
Having conquered the media mountain earlier in her career – working in TV, radio and film with the likes of Johnny Vaughan and her good pal Colin Murray – Charlie realised that her next great mission would be to rescue fan experiences from the desperately dull doldrums they were in at the time. From there Underground Fan Club was born – a studio devoted to producing more memorable, more believable and more exciting experiences between brands, fans and talent. At the heart of the mission is something many marketers bang on about with no clue, or care, about what it means in reality – authentic connections with your most valuable audience, something Charlie is already proving to be much more than the same old brand baloney. There’s an increasingly long line of brands queuing up for the Underground treatment but luckily for your ears and brains, CTA is nothing if not a queue jumper.
In an episode that’s all about fans, super-fans, stan-fans and ceiling fans (not that one) we learn what it takes for your brand to actually mean something more to the people you’re doing it all for.
This episode is proudly dedicated to Colin Murray.
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04:09 - Studying Drama at Loughborough
10:12 - Working with Johnny Vaughan
12:28 - The Evolution of Fighting Talk and Live Events
16:38 - Identifying the Gap: Connecting Talent and Fans
17:52 - Building Underground Fan Club: The First Event
20:32 - The Importance of Authentic Experiences
22:21 - Navigating Brand Partnerships
26:13 - Finding the Right Brand Partners
28:05 - Balancing Involvement in Events
32:29 - The Challenges of Running a Business
Charlie’s Book Recommendations are:
Careless People - Sarah Wynn-Williams
Shoe Dog – Phil Knight
Losing my Virginity – Richard Branson
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