Here are three big questions that arise from this Change Signal conversation with Dan Cable:
Are you leading with fear-based management?;
How much "freedom within the frame" are you offering? and
How do you use dopamine to best fuel your change efforts?
Dan Cable, Professor of Organizational Behaviour at London Business School, argues that as the world moves faster, leaders can no longer afford to use fear as the primary tool to drive change.
The conversation explores how neuroscience reveals what actually works in transformation. Cable introduces his "seeking system" concept — a part of our brain that's naturally wired to love learning and minimize future surprise.
You'll discover why organizations systematically beat curiosity out of people, even though curiosity is exactly what they need for change. Cable shares practical examples, including a fascinating KLM social media experiment that cost just €10,000 but generated over a million visits.
The discussion challenges conventional wisdom about control, compliance, and execution. Instead of trying to turn humans into robots, Cable suggests we embrace the messy, unpredictable, emotional reality of how people actually thrive during change.
Change Signal. Where transformational leaders find modern change mastery. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works.
***
WHEN YOU’RE READY
🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!)
The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly
***
CONNECT
💼Connect on LinkedIn
***
SAY THANKS
💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts
💚Leave a review on Spotify
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24:14
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24:14
Three Paths Through Failure. A CEO, a counsellor, a consultant
A CEO, a counsellor, and a consultant share a key question each about change:
How do you really make things safe for people?
Could powerlessness actually, ironically, be a superpower?
What’s the difference between guardrails and control layers?
What if everything you know about leading change is backwards? Garry Ridge turned WD-40 into a global phenomenon by doing something that sounds like career suicide — actively encouraging people to share their mistakes.
Ian Cron watched a wildly successful private equity executive hit rock bottom and say five words that changed everything: "I'm out of ammo." That moment revealed why admitting powerlessness might be the most powerful thing a leader can do.
Mark Smith faced a massive change initiative spiralling toward chaos with 280+ people across multiple programs. Instead of adding more governance, he did the opposite — gave teams complete autonomy within clear boundaries.
If change has ever felt like you're pushing water uphill, you'll find something here that flips the script. These aren't your typical change management playbooks. They're counterintuitive approaches from a CEO, a counsellor, and a consultant who've learned that sometimes the path to transformation runs directly through what feels like failure.
The insights might make you uncomfortable. That's probably a good sign.
Change Signal. Where transformational change leaders seek modern change wisdom. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works.
***
WHEN YOU’RE READY
🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!)
The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly
***
CONNECT
💼Connect on LinkedIn
***
SAY THANKS
💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts
💚Leave a review on Spotify
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21:59
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21:59
Should You Lie About Change? Michael Bungay Stanier solo episode
The three key insights from this episode: change is orienteering through unknown territory, not following a GPS route; organizations are addicted to efficiency when they desperately need experimentation; and the best experiments are designed to fail safely, not succeed predictably.
I'm diving solo into why small experiments might be the only sane approach to change in these chaotic times. After 30 years in this game, I've learned that "change management" is mostly a delusion — you can't manage your way through the unknown.
Most organizations want Google Maps for transformation, but what we're actually facing is orienteering through a misty valley with no clear path. Your company is probably designed to exploit what it knows, not explore what it doesn't, which creates a fundamental tension for anyone trying to lead change.
I'll walk you through what makes a good experiment, share some strategies for convincing skeptical stakeholders, and explain why you might need to run "two books" — one official, one real. Plus, why kindergarteners consistently outperform MBA students at innovation challenges.
If you're tired of change plans that feel more like wishful thinking than actual strategy, this episode offers a different way forward.
Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change and transformation.
***
WHEN YOU’RE READY
🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!)
The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly
***
CONNECT
💼Connect on LinkedIn
***
SAY THANKS
💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts
💚Leave a review on Spotify
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23:18
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23:18
Are Your Meetings Killing Change? Keith McCandless
Keith McCandless’s three key insights: meetings fail because we use five invisible patterns that systematically exclude people; anyone can facilitate breakthrough conversations using simple rules, no charisma required; and boosting both autonomy and responsibility simultaneously creates wildly productive teams.
Most change leaders know meetings suck, but Keith McCandless, co-author of The Surprising Power of Liberating Structures, reveals exactly why. We're drowning in unconscious patterns — presentations, managed discussions, status reports — that stifle the very people we need most.
But let me alleviate an anxiety you might have. You don't need to be a master facilitator to unlock your team's potential. McCandless shares simple structures that work every time, like Creative Destruction, where you imagine the worst possible outcome of your work, then stop doing whatever creates it.
The real shift? Developing deeper confidence in people than they have in themselves. When you use these patterns, product managers start standing on chairs and singing their ideas (no, literally.).
This conversation is candid, practical, and delightfully snarky about why traditional change management creates conformity instead of transformation. If you're tired of the usual approaches to engaging people during change, this episode offers genuine alternatives that work.
Change Signal. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works in change, transformation, and growth.
***
WHEN YOU’RE READY
🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!)
The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly
***
CONNECT
💼Connect on LinkedIn
***
SAY THANKS
💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts
💚Leave a review on Spotify
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25:57
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25:57
Why Stories Matter More: Jennifer Garvey Berger
Jennifer Garvey Berger’s three key insights: connectivity matters more than individual talent in complex systems; small experiments beat both over-planning and paralysis; and stories are legitimate measures of change before numbers shift.
If you've ever had a change plan that hasn't quite gone according to plan (and honestly, who hasn't?), this conversation with Jennifer Garvey Berger will shift how you think about leading transformation. She's spent three decades figuring out what actually works when everything feels unpredictable and out of control.
Jennifer challenges the "all-star team" approach most of us default to. Instead, she argues for building networks of diverse perspectives because you can't predict whose viewpoint will matter most until after the fact.
She also makes the case for experiments so small they feel almost trivial – like fancy lunches that generated $10 million in revenue. The key is making them smaller than you think, more fun than traditional initiatives, and designed specifically for learning rather than guaranteed success.
And here's something that might surprise you: Jennifer suggests that rumors and stories are often the first real indicators of change, long before your metrics show anything. In human systems, shifting narratives actually is real change.
This isn't about lighting incense and appreciating each other's light within. It's practical wisdom for navigating complexity without losing your mind.
Change Signal. Where ambitious leaders find modern change mastery. Cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works.
***
WHEN YOU’RE READY
🎧 A new episode every week (and sometimes two!)
The Change Signal newsletter. Short, practical, weekly
***
CONNECT
💼Connect on LinkedIn
***
SAY THANKS
💜Leave a review on Apple Podcasts
💚Leave a review on Spotify
If you’re leading change in organizations, this will be your favourite podcast.
Change is harder than ever. Transformation is more complex, unpredictable and overwhelming than it’s ever been. Change Signal cuts through the noise to find the good stuff that works.
Michael Bungay Stanier, author of The Coaching Habit and organizational transformation student for thirty years, talks to the best thinkers, senior leaders, and experienced practitioners in the world of change, to find what works, what doesn’t, and what to try instead. With Change Signal as your guide, you’ll be more efficient and less overwhelmed, and your change projects will more likely succeed.
Change Signal: Where we cut through the blather, the BS, and the noise to find the good stuff that works.
Sign up for weekly updates at TheChangeSignal.com
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