Pain Reprocessing Therapy Podcast

What does recovery from chronic fatigue actually look like inside a therapy room?

In this episode, host Daniel Lyman shares something rare: real recordings from real sessions. Over seven weeks, he worked with a client named Eric, whose chronic fatigue began after a bout of mono. The infection resolved. The exhaustion did not.

Across eight session clips, you won't hear a dramatic turning point or one technique that fixed everything. You'll hear something more honest and more useful: recovery happening in real time, one small shift at a time.

What Eric and Daniel worked on together:

Taking breaks as a message to the nervous system. This wasn't productivity advice. For years, Eric had pushed through exhaustion without stopping, and his brain had quietly learned that rest wasn't safe, that something more urgent always came first. Taking breaks was a way of gently saying otherwise.

Actually feeling emotions, not just understanding them. Eric was good at analyzing his stress. He could explain it, trace it, put words to it. What he hadn't been doing was letting himself feel it. When he finally stopped and sat with the weight of a hard situation at work, something in his symptoms shifted too.

Changing what the symptoms mean. Eric had been quietly organized around the idea that something might still be physically wrong, a lingering infection, an immune system that hadn't fully recovered. Shifting that story, from "my body is damaged" to "my nervous system learned to stay on guard and hasn't gotten the update yet," changed how he related to everything that followed.

Bringing joy back in. Chronic symptoms have a way of making life smaller. Hobbies disappear. Activities get quietly abandoned. Part of Eric's recovery was deliberately reintroducing the things that reminded his nervous system what safety and aliveness actually feel like. For him, that meant cycling, time with his partner, and video games.

By the final session, Eric had cycled 30 kilometers, hiked five and a half kilometers with real elevation gain, noticed his concentration improving at work, and arrived at something that may matter more than any of it: he no longer believed that something was wrong with his body.

If you've ever had an illness that seemed to resolve on tests but left something behind in your body, you should give this a listen.

Resources and Additional Links
Learn More About Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT)
Subscribe for updates, resources, and insights in the world of chronic pain and Pain Reprocessing Therapy.
Patient Hub
Practitioner Hub
Learn about WellBody Psychotherapy and how our certified therapists and coaches can support your healing journey: Visit WellBody
Email Us: info@painreprocessingtherapy.com

In this episode, Daniel Lyman is joined by two of the leading minds in mind-body medicine — Dr. Mark Lumley and Christie Uipi — for a candid, collaborative case discussion unlike anything we've done before.

Dr. Mark Lumley is a distinguished professor of psychology at Wayne State University, co-developer of Emotional Awareness and Expression Therapy (EAET), and one of the world's leading researchers on mind-body therapies for chronic pain. Christie Uipi is a psychotherapist, Executive Director of the Better Mind Center, a key contributor to the development of PRT, and a chronic pain overcomer herself.

Together, the three work through three real cases submitted by listeners:

Jill from Canada has lived with vestibular migraine and Persistent Postural-Perceptual Dizziness (PPPD) for six years after a lifetime of people-pleasing, boundary struggles, and pushing through stress. The group explores dizziness as an "escalation symptom" — what happens when the body has been ignored for too long — and how unexpressed emotions may be driving the nervous system's loudest signals.

Ben from Edinburgh has had chronic lower back and hip pain for 30 years. His herniated discs have largely resolved, but the pain remains — and it's worst in the middle of the night. The group digs into conditioned pain responses, the psychology of sleep and pain, and why rigidity in daily routines might be keeping the nervous system stuck.

Katerina has suffered from migraines since age 20 and is now dealing with up to 20 migraine days a month. She wants to know: is migraine actually neuroplastic? Can you treat it like neuroplastic pain if there's an underlying disease process? Dr. Lumley shares findings from a recent randomized controlled trial showing a 40% reduction in migraine frequency with group EAET, and the group unpacks the tension between traditional migraine management and a neuroplastic approach.

This episode is a masterclass in collaborative clinical thinking — and a reminder that no matter how long you've been suffering, there are still doors worth opening.

Resources and Additional Links
Learn More About Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT)
Subscribe for updates, resources, and insights in the world of chronic pain and Pain Reprocessing Therapy.
Patient Hub
Practitioner Hub
Learn about WellBody Psychotherapy and how our certified therapists and coaches can support your healing journey: Visit WellBody
Email Us: info@painreprocessingtherapy.com

Episode Title: When the Work Isn't Working

Season 2, Episode 1

Welcome to Season 2 of the Pain Reprocessing Therapy Podcast. Daniel Lyman, LCSW — founding member of the Pain Psychology Center and Executive Director of the Mind Body Therapy Center — takes over as host this season, bringing a deep clinical background in neuroplastic symptoms and chronic pain recovery.

For the first episode, Daniel sits down with Gabrielle Jacobs, LCSW, Associate Director of the Mind Body Therapy Center, to tackle one of the most frustrating experiences in recovery: doing everything right and still feeling stuck.

In this episode, Daniel and Gabrielle discuss:

Why understanding PRT and healing through PRT are two different things

The concept of experiential safety — and why waiting to feel safe before acting keeps people stuck

How relationships (with people, work, environments, and patterns) directly impact the nervous system's ability to heal

Living with intensity: why the same personality traits that make people great at life can quietly work against recovery

The difference between eliminating symptoms and changing the patterns that sustain them

Identity fusion — when pain becomes part of how someone understands themselves, and how to gently begin to loosen that grip

Secondary gain: what the symptom might be providing, and how to give yourself that thing without needing the pain to get it

Key concepts mentioned:

Experiential safety and graded exposure

The fear-avoidance model

Somatic tracking

All-or-nothing thinking in recovery

Secondary gain

Neuroplastic symptoms

Identity and recovery

About the hosts:

Daniel Lyman, LCSW, is a psychotherapist and founding member of the Pain Psychology Center, where Pain Reprocessing Therapy was originally developed. He is the Executive Director of the Mind Body Therapy Center, a therapy and coaching practice serving clients worldwide dealing with chronic somatic symptoms.

Gabrielle Jacobs, LCSW, is the Associate Director of the Mind Body Therapy Center and a clinician specializing in neuroplastic symptoms and chronic pain. She has been deeply involved in the clinical world of Pain Reprocessing Therapy for many years.

If you found this episode helpful, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who might need to hear it.

Resources and Additional Links
Learn More About Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT)
Subscribe for updates, resources, and insights in the world of chronic pain and Pain Reprocessing Therapy.
Patient Hub
Practitioner Hub
Learn about WellBody Psychotherapy and how our certified therapists and coaches can support your healing journey: Visit WellBody
Email Us: info@painreprocessingtherapy.com

In this episode, we explore what happens when fatigue doesn’t just mean “tired”—it feels like your whole life has been taken away.
Host John Gasienica sits down with Rachel, who developed severe post-viral chronic fatigue after a major COVID infection. Her symptoms—crushing exhaustion, brain fog, fear, and OCD spikes—left her doubting whether she’d ever get her life back. Together, John and Raelan Agle, a social worker and author who recovered from 10 years of ME/CFS, unpack how belief, emotion, and nervous system regulation interact when fatigue feels terrifying and permanent.
You’ll hear John work with Rachel in real time on two core beliefs:
“I’m physically broken.”
“I’m incapable of regulating myself.”
They explore how shifting from rumination and fear into sadness, grief, and healthy anger can loosen those beliefs and reduce the “monster” feeling of fatigue, even before symptoms entirely change.
Along the way, John and Raelan talk about:
Why people with histories of anxiety, OCD, and depression may be more vulnerable to neuroplastic fatigue
How emotional regulation (not emotional perfection) helps the nervous system feel safer
Why fatigue can feel uniquely frightening and isolating compared to other symptoms
The protective role of anger and assertiveness after medical invalidation and loss
How genuine joy, fun, and play are core nervous-system medicine, not “extras”
John also shares a framework for belief in recovery:
- Neuroplastic symptoms are real and can drive physical sensations.
- This might actually be what’s happening in my body.
- I can learn to regulate my nervous system with support.
At the end of the episode, John announces that this is the last episode of Season One and his final episode as host. He shares where he’s headed next (including a Substack for clinicians) and how to keep learning about Pain Reprocessing Therapy and neuroplastic symptoms.
What you’ll learn
- Why severe fatigue can feel so terrifying and isolating—and why that reaction makes sense
- How core beliefs like “I’m broken” and “I can’t regulate myself” keep symptoms feeling permanent
- A practical way to shift from anxiety and rumination into sadness, grief, and healthy anger
- How emotional regulation and belief interact to create safety in the nervous system
- Why joy, play, and doing things you genuinely enjoy are powerful predictors of recovery
- The “three layers of belief” about neuroplastic symptoms and where you might be stuck
 
0:00 – Intro: chronic symptoms, belief, and why feeling safer (not solving everything) matters
2:00 – Disclaimer & PRT practitioner training mention
3:00 – Meet guest Raelan Agle and her background with ME/CFS recovery
6:00 – Meet Rachel: post-COVID crash, severe fatigue, brain fog, and OCD spirals
14:00 – “I’m broken” vs. “I can’t regulate myself”: core beliefs behind the fear
24:00 – Exploring anger vs. sadness; assertiveness as protection, sadness as grief
32:00 – Live emotional work: touching grief and noticing shifts in fatigue in real time
44:00 – Debrief with Raelan: why fatigue feels like a “different monster”
53:00 – The role of belief, understanding the nervous system, and genuine joy in recovery
1:05:00 – The three layers of belief in neuroplastic symptoms
1:15:00 – Takeaways for people living with chronic fatigue and long COVID
1:20:00 – John’s closing: final episode as host, what’s next, and how to stay connected

Resources and Additional Links
Learn More About Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT)
Subscribe for updates, resources, and insights in the world of chronic pain and Pain Reprocessing Therapy.
Patient Hub
Practitioner Hub
Learn about WellBody Psychotherapy and how our certified therapists and coaches can support your healing journey: Visit WellBody
Email Us: info@painreprocessingtherapy.com

In this episode, we explore how “thinking less” and feeling safer in the present can quiet the nervous system and ease chronic symptoms. Dr. Becca Kennedy, a board-certified family medicine physician who treats neuroplastic conditions, joins John to unpack medical invalidation, loneliness in chronic pain, and why learning to access anger, compassion, and play can unlock recovery. You’ll also hear a real coaching segment with “Sarah,” navigating vulvodynia, fear, and uncertainty with step-by-step emotional work and somatic tracking.
What you’ll learn
Why certainty isn’t required for recovery—and how to “negotiate” with the brain’s demand for it.
A gentle, repeatable way to sit with fear and sadness so safety messages can finally land.
How practicing anger expression (safely) restores agency after medical gaslighting.
Somatic tracking: Relaxing bracing and signaling “nothing to protect”.
Re-introducing play and joy as evidence to your brain that you’re safe—even while symptoms are present.
Rough timeline
0:00 Intro — symptoms fade when we feel safer, not when we solve everything
2:00 Disclaimer & PRT training mention
3:00 Meet Dr. Becca Kennedy; path to neuroplastic care
6:00 Vulvodynia labels: validation vs. harm
7:00 Sarah’s story: yeast infection → persistent pelvic pain, despair, isolation
14:00 Processing the emotions of being in pain (not just past trauma)
20:00 Guided exercise: feeling fear/helplessness with compassion in the “life raft”
29:00 Accessing frustration/anger and why it’s protective to express it
37:00 Living with uncertainty; safety in the now vs. promises about later
43:00 Safety visualization and re-introducing play
50:00 Fun as medicine; nature, joy, and daily moments of ease
51:00 Parting encouragement & hope
Guest
Dr. Becca Kennedy — Resilience Healthcare (neuroplastic conditions, long COVID, chronic pain)
Mentioned/Concepts
Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT), somatic tracking, Emotional Awareness & Expression Therapy (EAET), nervous system regulation, medical trauma, safety signals.
 

Resources and Additional Links
Learn More About Pain Reprocessing Therapy (PRT)
Subscribe for updates, resources, and insights in the world of chronic pain and Pain Reprocessing Therapy.
Patient Hub
Practitioner Hub
Learn about WellBody Psychotherapy and how our certified therapists and coaches can support your healing journey: Visit WellBody
Email Us: info@painreprocessingtherapy.com