The Leadership Podcast

Jim Brown is the author of "The Imperfect CEO: Making the Climb to Organizational Health" and founder of Org Health. For over 30 years he has worked with CEOs, boards, and executive teams to build healthy organizational cultures and lead with clarity, courage, and shared responsibility. Jim argues that leadership accountability is the most underestimated pillar of organizational health. Not because leaders think it is unimportant, but because most assume they are already doing it well. In this conversation, Jim explains why leaders often judge themselves by their intentions while everyone else experiences their impact. He shares how that gap erodes trust, weakens accountability, and limits collaboration. He also discusses the small leadership behaviors that create outsized cultural change, how to distinguish productive tension from destructive conflict, and the early warning signs that organizational health is beginning to deteriorate. If you're trying to build a stronger culture, improve accountability, or create greater ownership across your team, this conversation offers practical insights you can put to work immediately. Find episode 517 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Jim Brown on The Accountability Gap: Why Leaders Misjudge Their Own Impact https://bit.ly/TLP-517 Key Moments [01:01] Which pillar do CEOs underestimate most [05:23] How do people go too far with imperfection [09:58] Small behavior change with outsized impact [12:36] The mind shift to stop being the bottleneck [14:30] Productive tension versus destructive conflict [16:38] When teams don't define the problem the same way [19:20] Leading indicator of deteriorating organizational health [21:37] Why we're lousy at collaborating in meetings [25:21] Why we collaborate well as humans but fail in business [28:54] Success on paper but something was off [30:16] Closing thoughts for listeners Memorable Quotes "The impact is the question, not the intention. It doesn't matter that we had the right intention. If the whole group in the room was just deflated because of what you said, it's useless to say, 'I didn't mean it that way.'" "Leadership is not about doing. Leadership is about leading. We have to get a mind shift to stop giving the answers, stop doing the work. All of our effort needs to be equipping the leaders around us." "Productive tension is anchored in clarity around a shared goal. When we all know what we're aiming for, we can be jostling with each other energetically." "The more you have someone looking to you for the answer, the less everyone else will think about what the answer should be, offer suggestions, or own the decisions." "What's happening in meeting rooms is a huge indicator of what's really going on in the culture." "As leaders, you will always have to help people manage tensions. It's not either or. Somehow we've got to figure out the balance of that tension." "The day the child realizes that all adults are imperfect, he becomes an adolescent. The day he forgives them, he becomes an adult. The day he forgives himself, he becomes wise." – Alden Nolan Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Jim Brown Website | www.orghealthteam.com Jim Brown LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/authorjimbrown

Joth Ricci is CEO of LYBL (Live Your Best Life), owner of Winderlea Winery, author of The System, executive chair of Burgerville, and former CEO of Dutch Bros and Stumptown Coffee. In this conversation, Joth explains why great companies aren't built by leaders who solve more problems—they're built by leaders who teach their people how to solve them. He breaks down the difference between executing and multiplying, what actually breaks during scaling, why discipline is the foundation of everything, and what the next decade of leadership development is actually missing. For leaders who've built something good but want to scale it without losing it, or for anyone responsible for developing the next generation of leaders, this episode cuts to the root of where most organizations plateau. Find episode 516 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Joth Ricci on The Leader as Teacher: Building Leaders, Scaling Companies, and Multiplying Impact https://bit.ly/TLP-516 Key Moments [05:59] The behavior that blocks learning in every organization and how to fix it [08:01] What breaks first when you scale too fast and how to protect against it [10:50] The recipe for pacing growth without losing your culture [13:13] Why discipline isn't just a trait—it's the through-line of great leadership [15:57] How to spot a leadership multiplier versus someone who's just executing [17:46] The number one mistake when promoting high performers into leadership [19:44] A coaching principle most executives miss [22:02] The gap between resilience and burnout—and what leaders actually need to do [24:14] How to balance purpose-driven work with financial performance [27:07] What the next generation of leaders is missing [31:00] Why curiosity and people skills are the real bottleneck for the future [34:27] When success isn't enough—the shift from achievement to fulfillment Memorable Quotes "Adults are just adult versions of the 16 year olds they were. You have engaged employees, employees just getting through the day, and employees staying off the radar. Great leaders engage at all learning levels." "I don't solve problems for people. I teach them how to work through problems. That shows you what people are made of. The people who can figure it out, they're going to do okay. The people who can't—they don't pass the test." "Great leadership is about pacing. Understanding how to manage your organization's pace and what they can and can't do. You build capacity incrementally, not in big steps. If you go too fast, it breaks you and the organization." "I'm a big believer in the discipline of staying on task, the discipline of getting things done, the discipline of how you manage your day. You can't manage others if you don't manage yourself well." "The job of a coach is to prepare your people. The players play the game; the coach doesn't. That's how you lead—constantly preparing people for what they do." "When I look for multipliers, I'm looking for people having influence on other people—dynamic in rooms, connecting with people, not talking at them. Emotionally able to meet people where they're at." "The number one mistake is promoting good performers who haven't shown those markers of leadership potential. We're good at identifying performance. We're terrible at identifying potential leaders." "Psychological fitness is not just recharging. It's the ability to stay on strategy and lead your teams through execution even in times of challenge or great growth." "The one thing many leaders miss is their ability to engage at different learning levels and achievement levels. We expect people to perform but don't spend time helping them get better." "The most impactful thing I ever did wasn't taking Dutch public. It was helping people grow. That's what fulfills me. And now I get to do that full-time." "A great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of arts, since the medium is the human mind and spirit." — John Steinbeck Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Website | winderlea.com Website | www.thesystem.co LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/joth-ricci-1248588

Murshed Chowdhury is the founder of Tech Duels, a communication and training platform redefining how individuals and organizations develop critical thinking and decision-making skills through structured debate. Murshed believes debate is one of the most underused leadership development tools available today. Not because it teaches people how to win arguments, but because it teaches them how to truly think, listen intently, and openly engage with ideas they disagree with. In this conversation, he explains why structured debate builds communication skills faster than most traditional training programs, how competition can strengthen learning without turning every discussion into a fight, and why live interaction is becoming more valuable as AI makes information increasingly accessible. He also shares why the future belongs to people who can combine technology with strong human judgment. Whether you're leading a team, developing talent, or navigating disagreement, this conversation makes a compelling case for why communication remains a distinctly human advantage. Find episode 515 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Murshed Chowdhury on Why Structured Debate Is a Leadership Superpower https://bit.ly/TLP-515 Key Moments [03:43] Why Murshed built Tech Duels after seeing brilliant engineers fail due to poor communication [06:51] Why structure and competition matter more than traditional training approaches [08:08] Why emotional intelligence and social IQ are the real competitive edge [09:56] How AI is reshaping the challenge [12:04] The downside of leaning too heavily on AI tools [14:33] How competitive format teaches people to listen, ask questions, and reach understanding instead of winning [17:26] The 'holy wars' problem: How to get tech leaders unstuck from their chosen platforms [20:42] The Veterans Technology Conference: Connecting military talent to tech careers [22:32] Reinvention at any age: The core skills that let people pivot careers [27:20] Helping people who process slowly [30:16] Murshad's take on AI uncertainty Memorable Quotes "Networking is not predicated on your personality. It's a set of skills. If you can learn it, you can be an expert." "Public speaking is the number one fear in the United States above death." "You judge a person by their question, not by their answers." — Voltaire "With AI and deepfakes coming, live events, interaction, understanding, emotional intelligence, social IQ—that's going to be really important moving forward." "Critical thinking skills are something you need in every facet of life, personally and professionally." "Half of our conflicts come down to one side not hearing what the other side was trying to say." "You have two ears and one mouth. Listen twice as much as you speak." "There's some really cool stuff on the other side. If you just listen to the other side, you'll be shocked at how much alignment there might be." "Core skill sets like discipline, ambition, eagerness, curiosity, and the willingness to learn—these let you reinvent yourself at any age." "The time thing is supposed to give you guardrails so you don't talk endlessly. But when you have structured thinking, even two or three minutes is plenty of time." "People are listening to you, they're speaking to you. If you can really own that, you can do amazing things." "We're all learning AI as we go. Stay curious, keep learning, and focus on what you can control right now." "It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it." - Joseph Joubert Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Murshed Chowdhury Website | www.techduels.com Murshed Chowdhury LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/murshedchowdhury

Karen Doll is a licensed psychologist, author of "Building Psychological Fitness: How High Performers Achieve with Ease," a partner at Psynet Group and chairs the Flourishing at Work initiative under Harvard's Flourishing Program. Most leaders know how to push through stress. Far fewer know how to recover from it. Karen argues that the difference matters more than most people realize. In this conversation, she explains why psychological fitness is not a personality trait but a trainable skill. She breaks down the difference between the stress that helps you grow and the stress that slowly wears you down, why resilience is more about recharging than enduring, and what leaders can do to support mental health at work without trying to become therapists. For leaders who feel constantly on, stretched thin, or responsible for the wellbeing of their teams, this episode offers a practical framework for building resilience that lasts. Find episode 514 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | https://youtu.be/S54CwTMZY0Q https://bit.ly/TLP-514 Key Moments [03:33] What separates psychologically fit leaders from those who struggle [05:37] Why mental strength is trainable and what that actually looks like [08:19] Top-down vs. bottom-up strategies for managing stress and the mental health continuum [13:22] Shared accountability: what leaders owe their teams on mental health [15:23] The victim mindset problem and what leaders can do about it [21:00] Why there's no magic test that predicts leadership success [24:48] The two biggest derailers Karen sees in executive assessment [28:12] The sweet spot between healthy ambition and burnout [31:45] Why clarity on your values is the shortcut nobody takes [33:23] Why the victim mindset is the silent career killer [35:54] When Karen's own psychological fitness was tested and what changed [39:34] Closing thoughts: the one thing every leader can do starting today Memorable Quotes "Resilience is about recharging. It isn't about powering through." "Between the stimulus and the response, there is a space. In that space lies our power to choose." "Defensiveness is the one thing I will not give feedback on. You tell someone they're defensive and they defend themselves. It's a dead end." "The goalpost keeps moving — and people are left feeling it's never enough. That is unnecessary distress." "Those that can spend the time recovering tend to struggle less." "Having social support and a multi-dimensional life — that's probably number one in terms of buffers against stress." "We do all have some agency in how we manage our mental health and how we move towards flourishing." "When something upsets us, sometimes that thinking pattern is not serving us and it's not necessarily factual." "If you move the body, it can settle the mind." "Leaders don't need to be their team's therapist." "Being a victim or having a victim mindset is not going to work out well for anybody — and that's never going to be good for mental health." "Self care is selfish — that was the core belief I had to break." "Small acts of kindness for people who are struggling — think of what a difference that can make. And that's accessible to all of us." "Just being a little more intentional — it doesn't cost anything. It doesn't need budget." "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal. Nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." — Thomas Jefferson Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Karen Doll Website | https://psynetgroup.com/ LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/learning/improving-your-mental-health-at-work Karen Doll LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/karendecesaredoll

Nick Black is the founder and CEO of GoodUnited, a former Army officer, co-founder of Stop Soldier Suicide, a Presidential Leadership Scholar, and a UNC Distinguished Alumnus. Nick focuses on a cost most leaders refuse to calculate: isolation. What happens to your people when no one is checking on them? After deploying 27 months in combat with the 173rd Airborne, Nick watched one of his soldiers survive war and then lose his life weeks after returning home. That experience reshaped how he thinks about leadership, connection, and responsibility. In this conversation, Nick explains why isolation is the common thread behind many of the losses he has seen, both in combat units and inside organizations, and why the peer group surrounding people is not a culture perk but a lifeline. He also shares what it took to carry mission driven urgency from the battlefield into the nonprofit world and then into a scaling company. For leaders who want to protect their people and not just manage them, this episode offers a more honest standard for what leadership actually requires and what it costs when it is missing. Find episode 513 on The Leadership Podcast, on YouTube, channel @theleadershippodcast, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Nick Black on The Leadership Cost of Isolation https://bit.ly/TLP-513 Key Moments [05:43] How 9/11 changed everything for Nick [10:54] The moment that led to Stop Soldier Suicide [15:01] What every leader needs to know about mental health [16:34] The balance between reflection and dangerous isolation [19:27] Leading people vs. taking care of people [20:49] The biggest leadership lesson learned outside the military [22:43] Bringing military training discipline into business [24:04] Why onboarding is where most companies fail [26:15] What "taking the hard road" actually looks like on a resume [27:14] Why offensive linemen make better leaders [29:07] How a lifetime of service shapes who you become [32:35] Closing thoughts on leadership and mental health Memorable Quotes "When in doubt, lead the way. That has yet to steer me wrong." "Isolation is your enemy. Never allow yourself to sit in a room with your thoughts." "Give that friend a call — your strongest friend, your quietest friend. Let them know you're still in their corner." "I have no idea what to do, but I seemingly have a PhD in what not to do." "Mission first, people always — and the only way you get the mission is through your people." "Find ten people that can do the work of a hundred." "You don't need to go be an Army Ranger. Show me how you got out of your comfort zone, took something on, and didn't quit. It could be anything." "Go find your passion and then go serve it." "If you can't laugh at yourself, you're not being honest with yourself — and I don't think many people are going to follow you." "The secret is not to give up hope. It's very hard not to, because if you're really doing something worthwhile, I think you'll be pushed to the brink of hopelessness before you come through the other side." — George Lucas Explore the full archive at www.theleadershippodcast.com or wherever you get your podcasts! Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Good United Website | goodunited.io Nick Black LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/nick-black-7658ab37