The Stanza

Part I: Mass Distribution is the Antithesis of Desirability
Marc Lotenberg, Founder of Dorsia, argues that the operators who will define the next decade of hospitality are the ones who have understood that reach and relevance are not the same thing, and that the pursuit of one is often the fastest way to destroy the other. 
In Part I of this episode, Marc explains why the new generation of wealthy consumers has stopped equating luxury with status and what most operators are getting wrong as a result, what happens to the guest experience when a restaurant can't hide behind alcohol sales, and why opening reservations to anyone and everyone is the fastest way to lose what made a venue worth booking in the first place. 

Thank you Dorsia for making this episode possible.
To learn more about Dorsia’s hospitality tech, get in touch: knox@dorsia.com

Download Dorsia to get access to impossible tables and events here (code: THESTANZA)
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Part II: Building the Pellicano World: Scaling Without Sacrificing Soul and Authenticity with Marie-Louise Sciò

Marie-Louise's interview starts at 18:22

Marie-Louise Sciò is the CEO and Creative Director of Pellicano Hotels, the group her father Roberto Sciò founded after acquiring Il Pellicano in 1979 from the couple who built it. Trained in architecture at the Rhode Island School of Design, Marie-Louise took over creative direction of the property in 2004, starting with a single bathroom renovation and expanding into every touchpoint of the guest experience, from uniforms to tableware to the archive-driven design language the group is now known for.
The portfolio has grown from Il Pellicano alone to include Mezzatorre on Ischia and La Posta Vecchia outside Rome, with two more properties in the pipeline: La Badia in Umbria and La Suvera in Tuscany. That expansion followed a €200M partnership with Aermont Capital, structured to take the group from three properties to a target of ten to twelve while keeping design, brand, and guest experience decisions in-house. Few operators have built a hospitality brand with this much mythology attached to it, and fewer still have done it while actively resisting the key-maximizing logic that typically comes with institutional capital.
Marie-Louise’s thesis is that scale and soul are not opposing forces, as long as room count stays intentionally small and every property is allowed its own distinct identity rather than a repeatable format.
In this episode, Nadine sits down with Marie-Louise for a rare look inside how Pellicano built its mythology, and what it takes to scale that world without flattening it.

INTERVIEW HIGHLIGHTS
The sink-or-swim test her father gave her: one bathroom renovation, no formal hospitality training, and a mandate to prove she could deliver a return

Marie-Louise’s unfiltered take on copycats

How the €200M Aermont Capital partnership came together, and what made it different from the other funds that approached the family first

Navigating the tension between a private equity return horizon and a family hotel business built over sixty years

The case against key-maximizing, and why Pellicano has refused to scale room count even when the underwriting would support it

The case study of Mezzatorre: opening a hotel in an emerging resort market

Marie-Louise’s view on the shift in what defines luxury

Learn more about Pellicano Hotels here
Connect with Marie-Louise on Instagram
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Part I: The Operating System for Culture with Marc Lotenberg, founder of Dorsia

Dorsia is building the operating system for private members' clubs: a first-party, end-to-end technology platform designed to replace the legacy software and disconnected third-party integrations that most clubs still run on today. Marc Lotenberg, founder of Dorsia, argues that the gap between what the most discerning members expect and what the average club can actually deliver comes down to a failure of infrastructure, not hospitality intent. 

In Part I of this episode, Marc makes the case for why genuine personalization at the club level has to be built on first-party data sovereignty, what it actually costs to build compliant, frictionless hospitality technology at scale, and why he believes that pretending every prospective member is your customer is the fastest way to end up with none.

Thank you Dorsia for making this episode possible. 

To learn more about Dorsia’s hospitality tech, get in touch: knox@dorsia.com
Download Dorsia to get access to impossible tables and events here (code: THESTANZA)
Follow Dorsia on Instagram

Part II: Heritage at Scale: Building the Orient Express Universe Across Trains, Yachts, and Hotels with Gilda Perez-Alvarado, CEO Orient Express

Starts at 13:26

Gilda Perez-Alvarado is CEO of Orient Express and Chief Strategy Officer at Accor, where she oversees the brand's expansion across hotels, luxury trains, and yachts. Orient Express is a strategic joint venture between Accor and LVMH, combining Accor's global hospitality infrastructure with LVMH's expertise in luxury consumer goods and brand stewardship. Gilda joined Accor in late 2023 after two decades at JLL Hotels & Hospitality Group, where she rose to Global CEO of the practice.

Today, Orient Express spans two hotels in Rome and Venice, the La Dolce Vita luxury train on Italy's historic tourist rail network, a second train, L'Orient Express, set for 2027, and the Corinthian yacht that launched in May 2026, with the Olympian to follow in 2027. Every asset is designed to be privatizable and capped in room count to protect scarcity. The Italian portfolio is developed in partnership with Arsenale , who first approached Accor ahead of the pandemic with a proposal to flag La Dolce Vita as Orient Express.

Orient Express is ultimately building what Gilda describes as a multi-modal travel business, sequencing hotels, trains, and yachts into a single continuous guest journey rather than a collection of standalone bookings.

In this episode, Nadine sits down with Gilda to explore what it really takes to relaunch one of the world's most recognized travel brands across real estate, rail, and maritime operations, while satisfying two publicly-oriented parent companies and a brand mandate that has to hold for at least another century.

INTERVIEW HIGHLIGHTS
How the Accor-LVMH joint venture divides responsibility, and what each parent brings beyond equity
The site selection framework for new hotel assets, including the role of an in-house historian
Why Orient Express capped room counts and built every asset to be privatizable, and how that shapes owner conversations and pricing
Gilda's view on how distribution and guest acquisition has evolved beyond traditional means
The open question on the Corinthian's revenue model: transient product or private charter business
How Orient Express approaches guest curation on trains and yachts, and why Gilda frames it as one of the most consequential and least controllable variables in the business
The tension between short-term shareholder reporting and a mandate framed around a 143-year horizon
What Gilda learned from LVMH's approach to scarcity and brand stewardship

Learn more about Orient Express here
Follow Orient Express on Instagram

Part I: The Architecture of the Guest Experience
La Bottega Collective designs and produces the physical and sensory touchpoints of the luxury hotel stay, from bathroom formulations and textiles to amenities, gifting, and retail, working with 15,000 properties across 117 countries, from the world's most recognized hotel groups such as Aman and Four Seasons, to the finest independent properties such as Passalacqua and Il San Pietro di Positano. Tommaso Pacini, CEO of La Bottega Collective, argues that the guest experience is not a collection of amenities but a coherent sensory language, and that the hotels who understand this are the ones building something guests cannot find, replicate, or buy anywhere else.
In Part I of this episode, Tommaso walks through how La Bottega Collective reads a property before designing a single touchpoint, why the choice between licensed and fully custom product programs is ultimately a question of time and conviction rather than budget, and how the most effective guest experience artifacts extend the emotional memory of a stay well beyond checkout.

Thank you La Bottega Collective for making this episode possible.
Learn more and get in touch with La Bottega Collective ⁠here⁠.
Follow La Bottega Collective on Instagram ⁠here⁠.

Part II: The Developer's Playbook: Building a €3B European Lifestyle & Luxury Hotel Portfolio with David Zisser
Episode starts at (17:22)

David Zisser is the founder of Omnam, a €3 billion European hotel development and investment platform with a portfolio concentrated in lifestyle and luxury assets across Italy and key European markets. His recent projects include the Edition Lake Como, W Rome, which he credits with catalyzing what W Hotels internally called its 2.0 positioning, and the Hotel Bauer Venice, acquired out of a bankruptcy process in partnership with Mohari Hospitality and flagged with Rosewood. He is currently developing a proprietary hotel brand, with a Paris property featuring Pharrell Williams as creative director serving as its first expression.
Omnam operates across the full development stack, from site identification and capital structuring through to brand selection, design intent, and operational oversight. Omnam’s LPs include institutional investor Bain Capital, and Mohari Hospitality, with whom David has built a partnership centered on a shared conviction about where luxury hospitality is heading. Omnam has worked with several major third party operators, and that breadth of exposure now informs both its underwriting discipline and its decision to build its own brand from a position of genuine industry knowledge rather than ego.
In this episode, Nadine sits down with David to explore what it really takes to build a multi-billion euro development platform in luxury hospitality, from navigating fundraising from institutional capital and large family offices to acquiring one of Venice's most storied hotels out of bankruptcy.

INTERVIEW HIGHLIGHTS
David's deal framework, and why any project where success is contingent on factors outside Omnam's control is a pass

How the Hotel Bauer acquisition came together out of a bankruptcy process, with competing global bidders, layered political dynamics, and a timeline that tested everyone involved

Ultra-luxury brand dilution and which operators are most exposed as generational wealth transfer accelerates

David's view on ADR stabilization, total in-hotel spend capture, and why the P&L conversation that matters most is not the one most investors are having

Why David believes hotel operators should exit F&B operations, and what a properly aligned fee structure looks like from an owner's perspective

The tension at the center of building a scalable brand from a singular, heritage-driven flagship asset

What David learned from managing institutional capital

Learn more about Omnam’s portfolio ⁠here⁠.
Follow Omnam on Instagram ⁠here⁠.

#luxuryhospitality #luxuryhotels #hotelbusiness #realestatedevelopment

Part I: The Travel Advisor as Curator
(00:00:27)

Erina Pindar, COO of SmartFlyer, argues that the travel advisor’s core product is less about access but more so curation and personalization: the construction of high-emotional-impact moments that exist outside the algorithm and cannot be replicated through self-booking.

In Part I of this episode, Erina walks through how SmartFlyer conceptualizes experiences designed to generate genuine surprise for HNW clients, why safari travel has seen a measurable resurgence in demand post-pandemic, and what the rise of multi-generational, long-stay itineraries signals about how the most valuable travel clients are beginning to define the category for themselves.

This episode was made possible in partnership with SmartFlyer.

SmartFlyer works with hotel owners and management companies looking to access a HNW traveler base that sits outside standard distribution channels. Reach out to learn more.

hello@smartflyer.com 
Learn more about SmartFlyer here
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Part II: The Art of Emotional Storytelling: How Airelles Builds Ultra-Luxury Around History & Generosity
(00:09:54)

Anne-Laure Ollagnon is the CEO of Airelles, the French ultra-luxury hotel group owned by entrepreneur Stéphane Courbit, whose portfolio of historic properties spans France and, as of this month, Italy. She joined the group in 2007 when Courbit acquired the original property in Courchevel, bringing a background in M&A law that shaped her approach to transforming heritage buildings into destination assets.

Airelles follows a full ownership model across almost all of its portfolio: Airelles Courchevel, Airelles Val d’Isère, Château de la Messardière and Pan Deï Palais both in Saint-Tropez, La Bastide de Gordes in Provence, and Palladio Venice on the island of Giudecca.

The one exception is Le Grand Contrôle, the only hotel inside the grounds of the Palace of Versailles, which Airelles operates under a concession with the French government. It is arguably the most precise expression of what the brand stands for: identifying sites of irreplaceable historic significance and restoring them into experiences that could not exist anywhere else. Across all of it, Airelles has grown without third-party management contracts, maintaining direct operational control and brand integrity at every property.

In this episode, Nadine sits down with Anne-Laure Ollagnon to explore what it really takes to build and run an ultra-luxury hotel group rooted in historic properties, emotional storytelling, and a culture of generosity that institutional capital structures are rarely designed to sustain.

Interview Highlights:
The difference between family office capital and institutional capital in ultra-luxury, and how that impacts the guest experience

How Airelles won the Palace of Versailles tender against more than fifteen competing hotel groups

The six-year acquisition and authorization process for Airelles Palladio Venice, and what patience as a development discipline actually costs

Airelles’ philosophy behind owning and operating distinct hotels

What Anne-Laure looks for when evaluating a new asset, and why emotion is the first filter before any underwriting begins

How a high-end hotel under 50 keys justifies its ADR and operates profitably without relying on volume

Anne-Laure’s view on where ultra-luxury is heading

Learn more about Airelles here
Follow Airelles on Instagram here
Follow the latest opening in Venice on Instagram: the Airelles Palladio

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#luxuryhospitality #luxuryhotels #hospitality

Part I: AI and the Future of Hospitality
Every hospitality operator is asking the same question right now: what does AI actually mean for my business? Marc Lotenberg, founder of Dorsia, has a clear thesis: the operators who will define the next era of hospitality are not the ones who chase the technology, but the ones who double down on the art, the craft, and the magic that no algorithm can replicate.

In Part 1 of this episode, Marc shares why AI will finally deliver the hyper-personalized, frictionless experience that modern luxury has always promised, how it will change everything from the kitchen to the moment a guest walks out the door, and why the pace of that disruption is arriving far faster than most people in the industry expect.

This episode is made possible in partnership with Dorsia. To get access to Dorsia’s curation of impossible tables and cultural events, download the app and use code THESTANZA.

This interview was filmed at Cafe Carmellini in New York.

Part II: Early Conviction: Investing in Aman and the Future of Luxury Hospitality

Jonathan Goldstein is the founder and CEO of Cain, a real estate investment and operating company managing over $14 billion in assets across luxury residential, hospitality, sports, and entertainment. Cain was formed in partnership with Todd Boehly and Eldridge Industries, built on a shared conviction that gateway cities and branded experiential real estate represented a generational investment opportunity.

Cain's real estate portfolio spans some of the most scrutinized assets in luxury hospitality. At the center of it is One Beverly Hills, a $5 billion, 17.5-acre mixed-use development flagged by Aman in the heart of Beverly Hills. Jonathan also co-led the $900 million investment into Aman Group alongside Saudi PIF, subsequently partnering with Mubadala Capital to finance the brand's expansion. Other assets in the portfolio include Six Senses Courchevel, Raffles Boston, the Delano Miami, and a stake in the Delano brand in partnership with Ennismore & Accor. Cain was investing in luxury and experiential real estate long before the pandemic made the thesis obvious to the broader market.

I worked on One Beverly Hills for Jonathan at Cain, which gives this conversation a level of access and specificity that is rarely present in interviews at this level of the industry.

Interview Highlights:
Approach to risk and creating an asymmetrical outcome in business

The story behind the Aman investment opportunity

What sets Aman apart from the rest

What it takes to earn the trust of sovereign wealth funds

How Cain assembled the One Beverly Hills site

The buyer profile of Aman Residences in Beverly Hills

Developing other luxury projects: Six Senses Courchevel & Raffles Boston

Repositioning the Delano brand & Miami hotel

Jonathan’s approach to choosing a hotel management partner

The personalization problem luxury hospitality has yet to solve

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Learn more about Cain’s portfolio here.

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