We talk a lot about doing less to get more—but in practice, most organizations end up doing the opposite. When priorities pile up, and nothing gets removed or finished, the result is a familiar kind of chaos: too many projects, too little focus, and an endless loop of adding more in hopes of getting unstuck.
This week, Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin unpack one of the most common organizational dynamics they see: the “more-is-more” trap of priority overload. They dig into why deprioritizing anything at work feels so psychologically and politically fraught, how identity and sunk costs keep teams clinging to low-impact efforts, and ways for leadership teams to prioritize at a org wide level, not just assemble a laundry list of everyone’s pet projects.
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Mentioned references:
"60% of Americans"
Depthfinding
John Cutler's prioritization article
WSJF (weighted-shortest-job-first)
GTD: Brave New Work Ep. 39 with David Allen
00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s a molehill you’re willing to defend until the end?
03:52 The Pattern: We prioritize everything and nothing gets done
06:01 John Cutler’s 4 Jobs of Prioritization
10:08 Why it’s so hard to stop doing lower value things
18:35 Difference altitudes of priorities
22:23 Where leaders mess up prioritization
25:11 Continuous steering version of priorities
33:05 Idea 1: Use a variant of WSJF for your own variables
37:21 Idea 2: Shift from saying “no” to “not right now”
39:27 Idea 3: Visualize your work to “see” deprioritization
41:26 Idea 4: Openly talk about conflicting priorities
44:00 Wrap up: Share the show with your coworkers!
Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of Coupe Studios.
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45:30
26. Unweirding Change with Michael Bungay Stanier
Despite an explosion of frameworks, toolkits, and “best practices,” the success rate of organizational change hasn’t improved in over a decade. For all the decks, comms plans, and transformation initiatives being sold, most companies still find themselves stuck, repeating the same plays and hoping for different results.
This week, Rodney Evans welcomes back Michael Bungay Stanier—best-selling author, host of the new podcast Change Signal, and longtime friend of the show—who’s on a mission to cut through the noise and find what actually works. They explore why change still feels so weird, the real leverage points for shifting individual and organizational behavior, and whether it’s finally time to retire “change management” as we know it.
Get a copy of Michael's change quadrants he talks about in this episode here: Michael's quadrants.
Learn more about Michael:
Follow him on LinkedIn
Listen to his podcast, Change Signal.
Subscribe to his newsletter, The Change Signal.
Check out his website, MBS.works
See his two prior appearances on our show, BNW Ep. 19 and BNW Ep. 75.
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Ready to start changing your organization? Let's talk! https://www.theready.com/working-together
Want future of work insights and experiments you can try delivered to your inbox? Sign up here.
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Mentioned references:
Jason Fox's episode: AWWTR Ep. 17
John Kotter and the 8 Steps
Depthfinding and the "Zones"
Ron Heifetz
Immunity to Change, book by Robert Kegan and Lisa Lahey
Peter Block
Winston Churchill "We Shape Our Buildings"
Maslow's hierarchy of needs
Larissa Conte: BNW Ep. 151
Katie Milkman: Change Signal Ep. 2
Caroline Webb: Change Signal Ep. 5
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro + Check-In: Do you have a non-work related goal that you’re working towards right now?
9:59 Michael’s journey to un-weird change
14:49 Michael’s individual and organizational unlocks for change
21:24 Importance of strong foundational habits to succeed in change work
25:37 Understanding of power dynamics in change work
33:27 Outdated change mindsets to let go of
38:38 Rodney and Michael’s takeaways
40:28 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share the show with your coworkers!
Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of Coupe Studios.
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42:38
Depthfinding: Putting It All Into Practice
In this miniseries, we’re exploring Depthfinding—an easy-to-grasp framework designed to help leaders and teams solve their gnarliest cross-functional challenges.
This week, Rodney and Sam reflect on what they’ve learned over the course of this eight-part miniseries—about the framework, their own Midnight Zones, and what it means to navigate complexity amidst uncertainty. They share how their thinking has evolved since launching the series, when Depthfinding is most useful (and when it’s not), and why every organization eventually has to ask: Who are we designing for?
The end of the miniseries isn’t the end of Depthfinding. Now it’s time for you to dive in.
Download the Depthfinding guide to get the template and examples of how to use it.
Want to learn more about Depthfinding? Head here: theready.com/depthfinding
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Mentioned references:
Bob Vila
The Ready's OS Canvas
"strategy pancakes": AWWTR Ep. 2
"even/overs": BNW Ep. 44
"op rhythm": BNW Ep. 118
Yaggadang by BG & Coyote Radio
00:00 Intro + Check-In: What is the warning label on the back of your box?
04:26 Depthfinding’s impact on our work
08:19 New discoveries from the miniseries
13:50 Limitations of Depthfinding
16:34 Troubleshooting consultants stuck in one zone
22:14 What’s next for Depthfinding
25:14 What’s next for the podcast
27:11 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share the show with your colleagues
This episode's theme music is Yaggadang by BG & Coyote Radio.
Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of Coupe Studios.
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29:08
Depthfinding: From Leadership to Stewardship
In this miniseries, we’re exploring Depthfinding—an easy-to-grasp framework designed to help leaders and teams solve their gnarliest cross-functional challenges.
This week, Rodney and Sam dive into one of the most pivotal (and misunderstood) aspects of the framework: stewardship. Depthfinding is built on the idea that organizations are like oceans, not aquariums. That means leaders have to show up in an entirely new way—not as a boss, a hero, or a disciplinarian, but as someone responsible for the ongoing health of a complex system.
Embracing stewardship can be an uphill battle thanks to the ghosts of leadership past and the inner work required to show up well in complexity. But when facing down uncertainty, building the conditions for resilience and learning to steward across each Depthfinding zone offers a new way forward.
Get the PDF Rodney and Sam talk about in this episode
Download the Depthfinding guide to get the template and examples of how to use it.
Want to learn more about Depthfinding? Head here: theready.com/depthfinding
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Mentioned references:
"Intelligence vs information age"
Jack Welch
Model T assembly line efficiency gains
Henry Ford quote about hands: The Future of Management, by Gary Hamel
connection between Gantt chart and slavery
Frederick Winslow Taylor
MRI study about how power impacts your brain
Employee Owned Trust (EOT)
00:00 Intro + Check-In: What is an underrated condiment?
03:46 Stewardship is how to put Depthfinding into action
08:32 Leadership ghosts of the industrial age: Henry Ford and the org chart
15:10 Leadership ghosts of the information age: Jack Welch and cult of personality
20:11 De-centering leaders and re-centering the organization for the future
23:50 Stewardship in the Midnight Zone playbook
28:13 Leaders modeling Midnight Zone moves is critical
30:29 Stewardship in the Twilight Zone playbook
35:46 Stewardship in the Sunshine Zone playbook
38:13 Stewardship in the Sky playbook
43:40 Wrap up: Leave us a review and share this episode with your colleagues!
This episode's theme music is Yaggadang by BG & Coyote Radio.
Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of Coupe Studios.
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45:43
Depthfinding: Making Sense of This Moment
In this miniseries, we’re exploring Depthfinding—an easy-to-grasp framework designed to help leaders and teams solve their gnarliest cross-functional challenges.
This week, Rodney and Sam zoom out. Because here’s the truth: the experience the last few months in the U.S.? It’s not an exception. It’s the environment we’re working in now.
From top-down compliance crackdowns to the resurrection of five-layer approval chains, we’re watching organizations double down on control just as the world demands more adaptability. Many teams feel stuck waiting for the storm to pass—without realizing that this is the weather now.
In this episode, we unpack what’s going on, what it means to lead when volatility is the default, and how to stop standing still and get moving.
Download the Depthfinding guide to get the template and examples of how to use it.
Want to learn more about Depthfinding? Head here: theready.com/depthfinding
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Want future of work insights and experiments you can try delivered to your inbox? Sign up here.
Follow us on your favorite platforms for more org design nerdery:
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Mentioned references:
Mongolian-Manchurian grassland
"USAID cuts"
"former federal employees as foreign intelligence targets"
"diversity in teams leads to higher performing teams"
"permacrisis article"
Overton window
Critical Uncertainties (a Liberating Structure)
00:00 Intro + Check-In: What’s a notable wildlife encounter you’ve had?
05:03 Understanding the moment we’re in
07:01 Efficiency in principle vs execution
11:31 Broad cuts that don’t acknowledge complexity
14:57 Midnight Zone churn
19:29 Big sky mandates that are a distraction from real work
28:18 Navigating the changing sky within your organization
34:11 Compounding crises are likely, plan for uncertainty
38:34 Parting thoughts
39:33 Wrap up: leave us a review and send us your questions!
This episode's theme music is Yaggadang by BG & Coyote Radio.
Sound engineering and design by Taylor Marvin of Coupe Studios.
Rodney Evans and Sam Spurlin have helped teams around the world adopt more modern ways of working and on At Work with The Ready they’re sharing the inside scoop with you, too. Whether you’re struggling with a carousel of ineffective meetings, annual strategy sessions that go nowhere, or decision-making churn that never ceases, they’ve seen it all and are here to help. In each episode, they'll break down common workplace challenges and show you the moves—both big and small—to start making real, lasting change. (Formerly “Brave New Work” with Aaron Dignan and Rodney Evans)
Ireland