In Depth

• Building Meter for decades, not an exit | Anil Varanasi (Co-founder and CEO)

  Anil Varanasi is the co-founder and CEO of Meter, which provides full-stack networking infrastructure as a service for businesses. Since founding Meter with his brother Sunil in 2015, Anil has been playing a distinctly long game in one of the most entrenched markets in technology, betting on vertical integration, business model innovation, and a multi-decade time horizon. In this conversation, he unpacks Meter’s origin story, from four-plus years of heads-down R&D, and shares how his unconventional approach to planning, management, and pace keeps him excited to run the company for decades. In today’s episode, we discuss: Why Anil thinks in 25-year horizons How operating in a monopolistic market shaped Meter’s approach Why Meter scrapped a year of OS work during the R&D phase How Meter is rethinking networking’s business model Surviving COVID, Apple’s M1 transition, and “a thousand bad days” Anil’s contrarian views on planning, OKRs, and management How founders can build companies they’ll want to run for decades Where to find Anil: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anilcv/ Twitter/X: https://x.com/acv Where to find Brett: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brett-berson-9986094/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/brettberson Where to find First Round Capital: Website: https://firstround.com/ First Round Review: https://review.firstround.com/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/firstround YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FirstRoundCapital This podcast on all platforms: https://review.firstround.com/podcast References: ADT: ⁠https://www.adt.com⁠ Alex Honnold: ⁠https://www.alexhonnold.com⁠ Alex Tabarrok: ⁠https://x.com/ATabarrok⁠ ⁠alarm.com⁠: ⁠https://www.alarm.com⁠ Andreessen Horowitz (a16z): ⁠https://a16z.com⁠ Apple: ⁠https://www.apple.com⁠ Bloomberg: ⁠https://www.bloomberg.com⁠ Bryan Caplan: ⁠http://www.bcaplan.com/⁠ Cisco: ⁠https://www.cisco.com⁠ Coca-Cola: ⁠https://www.coca-colacompany.com⁠ George Mason University (GMU): ⁠https://www.gmu.edu⁠ Intel: ⁠https://www.intel.com⁠ Julia Galef: ⁠https://x.com/juliagalef⁠ Martin Casado: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/martincasado/⁠ Meraki: ⁠https://meraki.cisco.com⁠ Meter: ⁠https://www.meter.com⁠ Michela Giorcelli: ⁠https://x.com/M_Giorcelli⁠ Nicholas Bloom: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/nick-bloom-stanford/⁠ Raffaella Sadun: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/raffaella-sadun-3a182225/⁠ Sanjit Biswas: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/sanjitbiswas/⁠ Sunil Varanasi: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunil-varanasi-662a01253/⁠ Tyler Cowen: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/tyler-cowen-166718/⁠ Twitch: ⁠https://www.twitch.tv⁠ Timestamps: (01:27) Meter’s unusual timeframes (04:06) “We don’t do OKRs” (06:32) How to plan without planning (08:31) Track your unhappy customers (11:43) How Meter’s journey began (15:02) Dissecting the 2010s SaaS boom (17:06) The networking industry trap (21:44) Meter’s first roadblock (22:07) Why Shenzhen accelerated Meter’s progress (26:29) The process to get a sales-ready product (31:02) Why you should own the full stack (32:45) The surprising thing you should innovate (35:03) Avoiding the one-trick pony trap (37:39) The secret to finding an excellent market (43:48) How COVID’s constraints propelled growth (48:25) Why founders need to know their customers (49:34) Why Meter didn’t sell via traditional channels (51:44) You need “seller-market fit” (54:51) The danger of meta-work (56:25) Decoupling management from authority (1:02:17) When the person is the problem (1:05:05) The inherent value of going slowly (1:09:41) Running a company for as long as possible

  --------  

  1:14:53

  --------

  1:14:53
• How Harness runs 16 “startups within a startup” at scale | Jyoti Bansal (Co-founder and CEO)

  Jyoti Bansal is the co-founder and CEO of Harness, the software delivery platform used by thousands of engineering teams, and previously founded AppDynamics, which he led from inception to a multibillion-dollar acquisition by Cisco. In this episode, Jyoti unpacks what it really takes to move from mid-market to enterprise, why he thinks in terms of “product-market-sales fit,” and how he structures Harness as a collection of “startups within a startup” to launch multiple “best-of-breed” products. In today’s episode, we discuss: Why companies get stuck in the mid-market and struggle to move up into enterprise Why Jyoti deliberately lost Netflix as their customer The difference between product-market-sales fit, and product-market-fit How to build a scalable, capacity-driven go-to-market machine (instead of chasing deals) Diagnosing whether you have a product problem or a distribution problem How to hire and evaluate your first head of sales and top sales leaders Why Jyoti sold AppDynamics three days before IPO The “binary differentiator” rule for launching new products into crowded markets Why Harness runs 16 product lines under one roof Where to find Jyoti: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jyotibansal/ Twitter/X: https://x.com/jyotibansalsf Where to find Brett: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brett-berson-9986094/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/brettberson Where to find First Round Capital: Website: https://firstround.com/ First Round Review: https://review.firstround.com/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/firstround YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FirstRoundCapital This podcast on all platforms: https://review.firstround.com/podcast References: Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/ AppDynamics: https://www.appdynamics.com/ Barclays: https://home.barclays/ BIG Labs: https://www.biglabs.com/ Carlos Delatorre: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cadelatorre/ Charles Schwab: https://www.schwab.com/ Cisco: https://www.cisco.com/ Citi: https://www.citi.com/ Cloudability: https://www.apptio.com/products/cloudability/ Datadog: https://www.datadoghq.com/ Dynatrace: https://www.dynatrace.com/ Harness: https://www.harness.io/ Jeff Bezos: https://x.com/JeffBezos Microsoft: https://www.microsoft.com/ Nasdaq: https://www.nasdaq.com/ Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/ New Relic: https://newrelic.com/ Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/ Splunk: https://www.splunk.com/ Traceable: https://www.traceable.ai/ Unusual Ventures: https://www.unusual.vc/ VMware: https://www.vmware.com/ Timestamps: (01:48) Why do companies get stuck in the mid-market? (05:09) Designing a product for enterprise and mid-market (07:19) Why Jyoti lost Netflix as a customer - on purpose (10:18) Becoming a scalable GTM organization (12:32) The real signs of product-market fit (14:04) Have you delivered the value? (15:46) How to hire your first sales team (19:59) The four signs of excellent sales leaders (23:16) How to interview a sales leader (27:51) Where Jyoti developed his commercial taste (29:37) Why early founders need to learn sales (32:02) How AppDynamics began (36:36) Why Jyoti sold three days pre-IPO (41:55) What does a healthy board look like? (44:23) How Jyoti perceives competition (46:18) Why you need a binary differentiator (49:53) How to launch multiple products (52:00) “We need to be best of breed” (57:38) Why PMs are like mini-entrepreneurs (1:00:20) The startup within a startup (1:02:45) A culture of continuous improvement

  --------  

  1:05:17

  --------

  1:05:17
• How to build a company you’ll run forever | Zack Kanter (Founder and CEO of Stedi)

  Zack Kanter is the founder and CEO of Stedi, an API-first healthcare clearinghouse. After bootstrapping a wildly profitable auto-parts business, he sold it to tackle "the most complicated problem" he'd ever encountered: business-to-business transaction exchange. He spent years building EDI infrastructure, threw away the entire codebase eight times, and found extraordinary traction in healthcare. Stedi recently raised a $70M Series B co-led by Stripe and Addition. In this conversation, Brett and Zack discuss why venture capital means "going pro," why execution is never actually a moat, and how "eating glass" became Stedi's competitive advantage. In today’s episode, we discuss: How 16-year-old Zack turned $2,500 into a wholesale empire Why bootstrapping means being "constrained by capital" and how VC removes that ceiling Why Zack rebuilt their EDI product eight times before launch The snake swallowing a deer: what extreme product-market fit really looks like What software companies can learn from discount retail and Toyota Why Stedi’s new hires are told "everything’s your fault now" And much more Where to find Zack: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zkanter Twitter/X: https://x.com/zackkanter Where to find Brett: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brett-berson-9986094/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/brettberson Where to find First Round Capital: Website: https://firstround.com/ First Round Review: https://review.firstround.com/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/firstround YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FirstRoundCapital This podcast on all platforms: https://review.firstround.com/podcast References: Aetna: https://www.aetna.com/ Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/ AWS: https://aws.amazon.com/ Blue Cross Blue Shield: https://www.bcbs.com/ Change Healthcare: https://www.changehealthcare.com/ Cigna: https://www.cigna.com/ Clay: https://www.clay.com/ Costco: https://www.costco.com/ Ford Motor Company: https://www.ford.com/ GM: https://www.gm.com/ HIPAA overview (HHS): https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/index.html Jeff Bezos: https://x.com/JeffBezos Kanban / TPS (Toyota): https://global.toyota/en/company/vision-and-philosophy/production-system Microsoft Teams: https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-teams NetSuite: https://www.netsuite.com/ O’Reilly Auto Parts: https://www.oreillyauto.com/ Peter Thiel: https://x.com/peterthiel Porter’s five forces: https://www.isc.hbs.edu/strategy/pages/the-five-forces.aspx "Reality has a surprising amount of detail": https://johnsalvatier.org/blog/2017/reality-has-a-surprising-amount-of-detail Slack: https://slack.com/ Stedi: https://www.stedi.com/ Summit Racing: https://www.summitracing.com/ Target: https://www.target.com/ Walmart: https://www.walmart.com/ Zapier: https://zapier.com/ Timestamps: (01:24) Zack’s first business (08:54) Why the first customer is tricky (10:12) The downside of bootstrapping (11:42) Why venture capital is like “going pro” (14:20) The confusion between ownership vs. control (16:08) Building a company you don’t want to leave (20:46) Do things better than other people (24:49) Stedi’s early years (31:43) Physical vs. digital product-market fit (34:41) How Stedi scaled decision-making (40:08) Stedi’s journey to product-market fit (45:22) Finding founder-approach fit (50:42) “All software is a cascade of miracles” (52:52) The surprising lessons from discount retail (57:50) How the Toyota production system influences software (1:01:31) What it means to be a high-agency person (1:03:09) The core trait Zack looks for when hiring (1:02:57) Maintaining conviction in unconventional practice (1:14:19) When should you start to hire managers? (1:17:42) “Reality has a surprising amount of detail”

  --------  

  1:24:09

  --------

  1:24:09
• Go hard early: How lessons from Verkada shaped Serval's AI agents for IT teams | Jake Stauch (Founder and CEO)

  Jake is the founder and CEO of Serval, an AI-driven IT automation and service management platform that just raised $47M in Series A funding this week. Before founding Serval, Jake spent over five years at Verkada, where he led multiple products from 0-1 and helped scale the company across hardware and software. His years at Verkada taught him that winning in enterprise means delivering consumer-quality experiences to business buyers — a lesson that shapes how Serval turns complex IT automation into something that feels magical. In this episode, Jake and Brett dive into the lessons from Verkada that inspired Serval's founding, what it takes to disrupt entrenched enterprise categories, and practical tips for getting deeply embedded with customers and hiring high-quality candidates. In today’s episode, we discuss: Why building “in existing categories” can be more powerful than creating new ones The lessons from Verkada that shaped Serval's platform strategy The customer interview question that unlocked the IT buyer’s hidden pain points How Serval's automation builder uses AI to generate code-based workflows Redefining engineering and PM roles with forward-deployed engineers Keeping the hiring bar high in an AI-native startup Why there’s a “land grab” moment right now in enterprise AI And much more... Where to find Jake: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakestauch/ Twitter/X: https://x.com/jakeserval Where to find Brett: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brett-berson-9986094/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/brettberson Where to find First Round Capital: Website: https://firstround.com/ First Round Review: https://review.firstround.com/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/firstround YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FirstRoundCapital This podcast on all platforms: https://review.firstround.com/podcast References: Alex McLeod: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexmcleodio/ Clay: https://www.clay.com Cloudflare: https://www.cloudflare.com Cursor: https://cursor.sh Filip Kaliszan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaliszan/ Hans Robertson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hansrobertson Linear: https://linear.app Okta: https://www.okta.com Rippling: https://www.rippling.com Serval: https://www.serval.com/ ServiceNow: https://www.servicenow.com Verkada: https://www.verkada.com Workday: https://www.workday.com Timestamps: (02:25) Lessons from holding different product roles (07:29) Turning “hard mode” into a moat (10:49) The early days of Serval (12:59) Scratching the founder itch (14:57) Unconventional interview techniques (17:47) Solving core interview challenges (21:10) Planning the early product roadmap (23:03) The surprising power of patience (26:12) Serval’s impressive technical advantage (27:35) Disrupting legacy incumbents (31:13) Building for mid-market and enterprise (33:35) Serval’s enduring roadmap (36:08) How to sell to an existing market (39:16) The evolving role software plays (43:55) Building for AI that didn’t exist yet (49:49) Serval’s forward-deployed engineers (58:31) The hybrid PM-GM (1:00:27) “You can over-prioritize” (1:02:48) The unexpected value of panic buttons (1:04:50) What Serval looks for in new talent (1:07:01) The ultimate hiring litmus test (1:13:59) Building out Serval’s go-to-market function (1:16:31) The evolving IT market in 2025

  --------  

  1:23:01

  --------

  1:23:01
• The pivot that paid off: How fal found explosive growth in generative media | Gorkem Yurtseven (Co-founder and CTO)

  Gorkem Yurtseven is the co-founder and CTO of fal, the generative media platform powering the next wave of image, video, and audio applications. In less than two years, fal has scaled from $2M to over $100M in ARR, serving over 2 million developers and more than 300 enterprises, including Adobe, Canva, and Shopify. In this conversation, Gorkem shares the inside story of fal's pivot into explosive growth, the technical and cultural philosophies driving its success, and his predictions for the future of AI-generated media. In today's episode, we discuss: How fal pivoted from data infrastructure to generative inference fal’s explosive year and how they scaled Why "generative media" is a greenfield new market fal's unique hiring philosophy and lean <50-person team Building a brand that resonates with developers What the world looks like in 2027 when AI-generated video becomes mainstream And much more… Where to find Gorkem: LinkedIn X / Twitter Where to find Todd: LinkedIn X / Twitter Where to find First Round Capital: Website: https://firstround.com/ First Round Review: https://review.firstround.com/ Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/firstround YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FirstRoundCapital This podcast on all platforms: https://review.firstround.com/podcast References: Adobe: https://www.adobe.com/ Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/ Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/ Base10: https://base10.vc/ Black Forest Labs: https://blackforestlabs.ai/ Burkay Gur: https://www.linkedin.com/in/burkaygur/ Canva: https://www.canva.com/ Clay: https://www.clay.com/ Coinbase: https://www.coinbase.com/ Cursor: https://www.cursor.com/ DALL-E: https://openai.com/dall-e-2 Databricks: https://www.databricks.com/ Dylan Patel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanpatelsa/ fal: https://fal.ai/ Google DeepMind: https://deepmind.google/ LLaMA: https://ai.meta.com/llama/ OpenAI: https://openai.com/ Oracle: https://www.oracle.com/ Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/ Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/ Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/ Sora: https://openai.com/sora Stable Diffusion XL (SDXL): https://stability.ai/stable-diffusion Stability AI: https://stability.ai/ Together AI: https://www.together.ai/ All images and videos generated using models run on fal.ai Timestamps: (01:43) The generative media industry (02:29) From $2M to $100M ARR: fal's explosive year (04:06) How Gorkem met co-founder Burkay Gur (05:38) The hardest decision that saved the company (09:52) Spotting the opportunity in generative media (13:28) Turning Todd into George Clooney (15:29) The early adopters of the first fal product (17:54) The transition from toy to tool (19:27) Why 2025 is the year of AI-generated video (21:44) Staying nimble as a 45-person company (24:42) Predicting AI-generated film in 2027 (27:24) Why generative media is a greenfield market (30:33) fal’s greatest optimization wins (34:42) Why fal has 500 Slack channels (36:02) Competing in a fast-moving, fragmented market (42:06) How to build a world-class team (47:24) Learning sales as a technical founder (50:55) How fal built a brand without a marketer (53:21) The story behind "GPU Rich / GPU Poor" (54:22) Inside fal’s rule-breaking playbook (56:09) The hardest part of scaling fal

  --------  

  59:18

  --------

  59:18

More Business podcasts

Trending Business podcasts

About In Depth

In Depth: Podcasts in Family