More Than A Lawyer with Holly Cope

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In this episode, I'm talking with Joey Irwin, Co-Founder of Kyra Law, an AI-native law firm for startups. Joey shares his journey from Linklaters and Monzo to spending a year experimenting with AI and building the foundations of a new legal business.

We explore how Kyra combines AI agents, shared institutional knowledge and experienced lawyers to deliver legal services with upfront fees and responsive communication. Joey explains how the firm captures each client’s preferences, checks work before it leaves the business, and uses automation to create more space for judgment, relationships and flexible working.

We also discuss winning clients, moving towards more complex work, and why the most useful question lawyers can ask about AI is: how will this improve my client’s experience?

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction
01:00 What is an AI-native law firm?
04:00 Training programme
06:19 Upfront fees, responsiveness and better client communication
09:38 Inside Kyra: AI agents and a second brain for clients
16:37 Quality control, governance and client data
20:14 Building the platform and taking on more complex work
22:56 Joey’s journey from Linklaters and Monzo to Kyra
24:37 A year of vibe coding and building without external funding
28:58 Winning clients and earning repeat business
31:46 The admin iceberg: automation, judgment and strategy
32:42 Making legal work more enjoyable and flexible
35:17 AI skills, agents and putting clients first

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In this episode, I'm talking with Marcelo Moura, a dual-qualified associate in Mishcon de Reya’s Commercial Litigation team, co-founder of AI2L, and UK Ambassador of the Brazilian Legal Tech Association (AB2L). He has worked in law since 2005 and has been involved in AI, innovation, and legal-tech initiatives since 2017.

We compare Brazil’s high-volume, increasingly digitised courts with the UK’s legal system and explore how different rules shape legal technology. Marcelo also shares why he once feared AI would replace lawyers, how to use LLMs without outsourcing human judgment, and what thoughtful AI adoption means for law firms, lawyers, and students.

Chapters

00:00 Meet Marcelo Moura and explore Brazil’s legal-tech story

02:42 Why Marcelo calls Brazil “the largest legal-tech laboratory in the world”

05:15 The Newsletter

05:32 Paperless courts and how legal systems shape legal technology

08:26 Brazil’s legal-tech market: predictive analytics and online dispute resolution

14:06 The risks of automating court filings and the limits of court efficiency

16:05 Why so many Brazilian consumer disputes become individual cases

19:44 Brazil’s legal market and untapped business potential

21:40 Why legal-tech markets should learn from each other

28:13 Automation and the value of bespoke legal work

33:17 How fear of AI shaped Marcelo’s career and led him to speak up

36:06 How AI became part of everyday legal practice

37:26 Will AI mean fewer lawyers, and how can lawyers prepare?

40:18 AI in legal education and the value of learning by doing

42:21 What a law firm’s AI strategy needs to consider

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Each week I take what I'm hearing in conversations with legal leaders.

I analyze the market and track emerging trends in this AI era.

In my newsletter called The Future Lawyer Market Intel for the AI era

I'm focused on:

What AI is exposing
The opportunities
The blind spots
And the shifts shaping the next five years.

This is how you see the chessboard before everyone else does:

https://hollycope.my.canva.site/thefuturelawyer
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, I'm joined by leaders working at the highest levels of corporate legal practice, big law, and public service:

• Sonia Cisse, Tech, Cybersecurity, Privacy, E-Commerce, and Fintech Partner at Linklaters.
• David Mazur, Vice President, General Counsel, and Compliance Officer for Research and Development at Nestlé.
• Alexandre Verrien, Legal Executive and former Legal Director of France for Dell Technologies.
• Peter Boyce, Legal Deputy Director in the UK Civil Service and AI lead for his agency.
• Amy Cronin, Senior Director of Legal at Skyscanner.

We explore one of the biggest questions facing the legal profession: where should AI stop and human judgment begin?

From algorithmic bias and verification to governance, legal risk, and team culture, this conversation goes far beyond productivity tools. We discuss why human empathy, negotiation nuance, and strategic thinking remain the legal system's greatest strengths, and what core skills lawyers must build to thrive in the age of AI.

You'll hear perspectives on AI literacy, prompt engineering, legal data hygiene, and future-proof skill sets that most lawyers aren't talking about yet.

In this episode:

00:00 - Sonia Cisse: Adaptability & Legal Mindset Shifting
00:38 - AI Risk Assessment & Data Security Governance
01:01 - Generative AI Literacy & Operational Fluency
02:01 - AI-Augmented Career Positioning for Junior Lawyers
04:16 - Cross-Disciplinary Hybridization (Legal Data Science)
04:42 - The Newsletter
05:13 - Introduction David Mazur
05:23 - High-Level Strategic Legal Thinking & Deal Structuring
05:59 - Visual Legal Communication & Stakeholder Influence
06:27 - Scientific Experimentation & Applied Curiosity
07:40 - Secure Contextual Research & AI Thinking Partnership
08:55 - Strategic Regulatory Oversight & Ethical AI Governance
09:49 - Introduction Alexandre Verrien
10:08 - Complex Negotiation & Strategic Human Judgment
11:27 - "Human-in-the-Loop" Quality Control & Output Verification
11:55 - Advanced Prompt Engineering & Context Framing (Avoiding GIGO)
12:40 - Legal Data Hygiene & Corporate Information Architecture
13:33 - Legal Process Optimization & Change Leadership (PPT Framework)
14:58 - Introduction Peter Boyce & Amy Cronin
15:38 - Critical Thinking, Advocacy & High-Order Soft Skills
16:11 - Technical LLM Literacy & Vendor Evaluation
16:46 - Continuous Upskilling & Structured Innovation Management
17:23 - No-Code Legal Engineering & AI Agent Building
18:01 - AI Liability Ownership & Adaptive Growth Mindset

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Each week I take what I'm hearing in conversations with legal leaders.

I analyze the market and track emerging trends in this AI era.

In my newsletter called The Future Lawyer Market Intel for the AI era

I'm focused on:

What AI is exposing
The opportunities
The blind spots
And the shifts shaping the next five years.

This is how you see the chessboard before everyone else does:

https://hollycope.my.canva.site/thefuturelawyer
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today I'm sitting down with Raffi Isanians, a former BigLaw M&A lawyer (with experience at Kirkland & Ellis, Gunderson, and Goodwin), Y Combinator alum, and founder of Mage Legal.
Mage Legal helps law firms and in-house legal teams automate legal due diligence by scanning data rooms, flagging risky clauses, generating reports, and producing follow-up questionnaires. Alongside building Mage, Rafi runs Coding for Lawyers, an initiative that helps legal professionals develop technical skills to build with AI better.

We talk about why AI won't replace human lawyers, but will radically alter how law firms operate, price, and compete.

You’ll hear fresh perspectives on why today's top law firms are becoming technology companies, why treating AI like a "smart associate" changes how you prompt, and what attorneys need to do now if they want to stay relevant in an AI-first world.

Timestamps:

00:00 — Intro
02:08 — Why AI Won't Replace Lawyers (But Will Reshape Everything)
03:40 — Why Lawyers Should Be Worried About Being Left Behind
05:38 — The Newsletter
06:10 — Overcoming Risk-Aversion & Investing in Tools
09:29 — "Vibe Coding" & The Shift in Legal Mindset
11:01 — AI-Native Law Firms: Recipe for Disaster or Future Necessity?
13:24 — Case Study: Cleary Gottlieb & Cleary X
14:08 — Debunking the Myth: Are Lawyers Training AI to Replace Them?
18:16 — Prompting Best Practices: Treat AI Like a Smart Associate
20:56 — Skills for the Future: Do Lawyers Need Technical Depth?
22:52 — Over-Reliance on Legal Tech & Vendor Dynamics
26:33 — How Legal Tech Companies Survive: Bridging Tech & Legal Expertise
31:02 — What AI Can't Replace: Human Connection & Emotional Labor
34:33 — Building the Law Firm of the Future
39:09 — Outro

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Each week I take what I'm hearing in conversations with legal leaders.

I analyze the market and track emerging trends in this AI era.

In my newsletter called The Future Lawyer Market Intel for the AI era

I'm focused on:

What AI is exposing
The opportunities
The blind spots
And the shifts shaping the next five years.

This is how you see the chessboard before everyone else does:

https://hollycope.my.canva.site/thefuturelawyer
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

One of the biggest concerns about AI in law is that if AI does all the junior work, how will junior lawyers learn? I've discussed this many times on my podcast. After all, legal careers have traditionally been built through repetition, reviewing documents, researching, drafting, making mistakes, and getting feedback.

I'm repeating this cycle thousands of times.

The assumption is that if AI removes some of that work, it removes the learning. But what if the opposite is true?

Today I'm sitting down with Mike Kochkin, founder at BeSavvy, an AI-powered legal training platform helping law firms rethink how lawyers learn, develop judgment, and build practical skills in an AI-first world.

Mike is one of the most thoughtful voices I've spoken to on the future of legal education. Rather than focusing on AI as a productivity tool, he explores how it can transform the way junior lawyers develop expertise, confidence, and professional judgment.

We discuss how AI is reshaping legal training and why many of the assumptions law firms have about developing junior talent may no longer hold true.

Mike shares a fascinating perspective: AI isn't creating a training gap. It's solving a century-old problem.

You'll hear perspectives on legal education, professional development, and AI adoption that most lawyers aren't talking about yet.

In this episode, we cover:

• Why AI may dramatically shorten legal learning and feedback cycles

• The difference between a "training gap" and a "shift in focus"

• Why first-principles thinking matters more than learning legal tech tools

• How AI-powered simulations can accelerate professional development

• The hidden problem with traditional legal training models

• Why junior lawyers are becoming afraid to use AI

• How law firms can create safe environments for learning and experimentation

• The future of virtual vacation schemes and AI-driven legal education

• Why product builders and relationship builders will both thrive in law firms

• How AI could generate personalised legal training experiences on demand

• The role of judgment, risk assessment, and critical thinking in an AI-first profession

• Why legal tech skills may be less important than most lawyers think

• How law firms should prepare their training programmes for the next generation of lawyers

If you're a lawyer, law student, legal innovator, or simply interested in how AI will reshape professional expertise, this conversation offers a glimpse into what legal education could look like over the next decade.

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Each week I take what I'm hearing in conversations with legal leaders.

I analyze the market and track emerging trends in this AI era.

In my newsletter called The Future Lawyer Market Intel for the AI era

I'm focused on:

What AI is exposing
The opportunities
The blind spots
And the shifts shaping the next five years.

This is how you see the chessboard before everyone else does:

https://hollycope.my.canva.site/thefuturelawyer
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.