Messy Social Work

• Rich and Tim speak to Prof Donald Forrester about Nanny McPhee, baseball bats and the heart of social work (rights?!)

  In this episode of The Messy Social Work Podcast, we sit down with Professor Donald Forrester, researcher and social worker.  We talk about why he thinks social workers are a bit like Nanny McPhee, why social work isn’t really about “helping,” and why conflict sits at the heart of the work we do. Donald shares the stories behind some of his most memorable anecdotes—from the baseball bat incident to the £20 haircut—and what they taught him about dignity, power, and human connection. We dig into whether there’s space for love in social work, how rights and relationships can coexist, and the traps practitioners fall into when we find ourselves telling parents what to do instead of listening. As a foster carer, Donald also reflects on what really makes a good social worker, what we get wrong about outcomes, and why change is so hard—and so hopeful. Plus, we finish with 10 quick-fire questions, where Donald reveals everything from the books that shaped him to his favourite motivational interviewing technique.Check out the Enlightened Social Worker here and more about Donald here Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programmeRich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

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• Rich and Tim speak to Charlotte Clark (Child Protection Social Worker) about trust, power and relationships

  Rich and Tim sit down with Charlotte Clark, a practising frontline child protection social worker, to explore what it means to build trust in contexts where distrust runs deep. From navigating statutory power dynamics to managing conflict under intense pressure, Charlotte shares insights from her early career journey, reporting from the frontline and reflects on the relational skills that matter most. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programmeRich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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• Rich and Tim speak with Anam Raja to discuss the experiences of Black and Asian kinship carers

  Full research and report found herehttps://kinship.org.uk/our-work-and-impact/research/raised-by-relatives/

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• Rich and Tim ask each other surprising & difficult questions

  Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programmeRich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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• Rich and Tim discuss the Trauma Industrial Complex

  This week on Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim take a deep dive into Darren McGarvey’s The Trauma Industrial Complex — a book that pulls no punches about how society packages, sells, and performs trauma. We explore McGarvey’s core argument that trauma has become a kind of cultural currency, often stripped of nuance and turned into content. We talk about the emotional labour placed on lived-experience workers, the myths of the “hero’s journey,” and the three layers of victimhood: victimhood, victim mentality and the victim complex. We also reflect on McGarvey’s honesty about his own narrative, including the four fundamental flaws he uncovered in his story and what this means for real recovery. If you work in social care, mental health, youth work, or community settings — or you’ve ever felt the tension between compassion, truth and accountability — this episode will stay with you.You can purchase the Trauma Industrial Complex hereRelational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programmeRich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

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