School of Podcasting: Expert Tips for Launching and Growing Your Podcast

You Down With YPP?
Episode Description:
I break down YouTube’s latest changes to its Partner Program, including doubled watch-hour requirements and higher Shorts monetization thresholds ahead of the February 2027 deadline. I also bring in YouTube expert Adam Ivey’s take on why the real story isn’t necessarily the new criteria, and I share my own channel’s numbers so you can set realistic expectations for your own YouTube journey.
Then the AI kids stop by for story time as I take a look at Spotify’s decade-long history of making big podcasting promises—and quietly failing to deliver on them. From a scrapped hosting partnership to a Creator Fund that never paid a cent, there’s plenty to unpack.
Plus, Ray Ortega drops by with the shortest—and most accurate—definition of “podcast” you’ll ever hear.
YouTube Partner Program (YPP) changes, effective February 1, 2027
Watch-hour requirement doubles: 4,000 to 8,000 hours in the past year (new creators only; existing YPP members are grandfathered in)
Shorts monetization threshold doubles: 10 million to 20 million qualified views in 90 days to get in, then a rolling 10 million views every 90 days to maintain earnings
Full monetization tier: 1,000 subscribers, $100 payment threshold
Lower tier (500 subscribers): unlocks YouTube Shopping (affiliate) and channel memberships, requires 3,000 watch hours or 3 million Shorts views

The real story behind the changes
Adam Ivy's stat: 67% of YouTube creators make less than $10,000/year
YouTube's stated pivot: broadening revenue beyond ads, with bonuses for YouTube Shopping, brand-deal incentives, and trend-based earning boosts
YouTube says it expects to pay creators more in 2027 than 2026: money is shifting, not shrinking
Steve Stewart (Podcast Editor Academy): "Don't just sell your audience to sponsors, sell sponsors on how great your audience is"

Is YouTube worth it? The data
Sounds Profitable's Podcast Atlas (slide 23): Clips lead viewers to watch a specific episode (30% often/always, 81% at least sometimes) and to become regular listeners (33% often/always, 84% at least sometimes)
Dave's real channel numbers: 3,523 subscribers, ~$2.49 per 1,000 views, one video with 115 views earned 25 cents
Bottom line: YouTube ad revenue is icing, not cake. Don't budget groceries on it

Spotify: a bedtime story for the AI kids
May 2015: Spotify launches podcasts through a small group of hosting "partners" (Libsyn, Blubrry), framed as a growth opportunity, not monetization
Spotify initially insists on hosting the media files itself rather than letting partners host. Partners build custom engineering to comply, then Spotify reverses course
2019: Spotify buys Anchor for $150 million, turning former hosting partners into competitors overnight, with free hosting
Spotify quietly submits shows to Apple Podcasts under its own account, hiding stats from creators and sparking creator frustration (often aimed at consultants, not Spotify)
2020: Megaphone acquired for $235 million. 2021: Whooshkaa acquired and folded into Megaphone, then shut down
2021: Betty Labs acquired, becomes Greenroom (Spotify's Clubhouse competitor)
2021: "New Era of Podcast Monetization": paid subscriptions, Open Access Platform, Spotify Audience Network announced
Mid-2021: Greenroom launches with a Creator Fund promised for live audio creators. Payment mechanics never disclosed
2021: Music + Talk announced ("play music in your podcast"), restricted to the Spotify app, paying subscribers only, after listening to the full episode
September 2021: Q&A and Polls launch, pitched as "the future of podcasting is interactive"
January 2022: In-house production studio "Studio Four" shut down with layoffs
April 2022: Greenroom rebrands to Spotify Live; Creator Fund confirmed to have never launched, quietly shelved
March 2023: Anchor rebranded to Spotify for Podcasters
April 2023: Spotify Live shut down entirely, two years after the original Greenroom launch
February 2024: Music + Talk and Anchor's recording tools killed; users redirected to Riverside
July 2024: Q&A and Polls shut down, replaced with Comments
Spotify's "walled garden" habits: video and transcripts only available on Spotify, resistance to RSS since it sends listeners off-platform
2026: Skip Ahead ad-skipping button testing begins, available only to Premium subscribers, while advertisers still pay for the ad
Audiobooks added, bundled with music, resulting in lower royalty payments to musicians

What it actually takes to make money on Spotify
1,000 Spotify audience members (last 30 days)
2,000 Spotify hours consumed (last 30 days)
At least 3 published episodes
Free alternatives exist too: Buzzsprout (90 days free), RSS.com, Red Circle

Also in this episode:
Ray Ortega's shortest definition of a podcast: "An RSS feed with audio or video content"
Dave will be at the Empowered Podcasting Conference. Say hello if you see him

Links:
Podnews (the definitive investigative piece): https://podnews.net/update/greenroom-creator-fund-mirage
Hollywood Reporter (original confirmation): https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/spotify-greenroom-creator-fund-live-audio-1235132234/
TechCrunch (Spotify's official statement): https://techcrunch.com/?p=2302547
Tubefilter (stock price angle): https://www.tubefilter.com/2022/04/19/meta-live-audio-rooms-spotify-green-ro
Spotify's own support doc: https://support.spotify.com/al/creators/article/understanding-skip-ahead-button/
Podnews (the deepest industry-side reporting): https://podnews.net/article/spotify-threat-ad-skipping
Hollywood Reporter (advertiser reaction): https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/spotify-new-ad-skipping-feature-1236670480/
Forbes (scale/downloads context): https://www.forbes.com/sites/gabrielalinzainescu/2026/08/10/spotify-tests-ad-skip-button-that-could-upend-podcast-advertising/
Variety (original 2024 reclassification): https://variety.com/2024/digital/news/spotify-music-audiobook-bundle-lower-royalty-for-songwriters-1235974942/
Music Tech (MLC lawsuit filed): https://musictech.com/news/industry/spotify-royalties-lawsuit-audiobook-bundling/
Music Business Worldwide ($3.1bn NMPA projection): https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/nmpa-says-spotify-bundling-move-could-cost-music-publishers-3-1bn-through-2032/
Music Business Worldwide (lawsuit dismissed): https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/spotify-wins-audiobook-bundling-lawsuit-as-court-dismisses-legal-action-brought-by-the-mlc/
Variety (ruling coverage w/ judge's quote): https://variety.com/2025/music/news/spotify-wins-lawsuit-bundling-royalties-1236289823/
Time (FTC complaint, $150M NMPA estimate):

How Do You Hit 4000 Episodes Without Losing Your Mind?
Today I'm talking with Glenn Hebert and Jamie Jennings from Horses in the Morning, the flagship show of the Horse Radio Network. They just crossed 4000 episodes, and since they're doing this daily, I had a ton of questions for them. Mainly: how do you keep your sanity?
Glenn has been on this show more times than any other guest, and I'll drop links to a few of those past conversations below. We also talk about how "Glenn the Geek" became a verb around here. I cut in a few times throughout the episode to riff on some of what we discussed, so stick around for that too.
Key Takeaways
Segments (not just guests) are what let a daily or frequent show survive without constantly reinventing the wheel.
A real community needs a place to talk to each other, not just a place to listen to you.
Feedback from your most invested listeners (not just anyone) should shape what you keep and what you cut.
You're making the show for the 80% who like it, not the 20% who don't.
If you're trying to make money at this, budget 10-12 hours of work for every hour that airs.

How Glenn and Jamie Keep Finding Something to Talk About
Jamie's husband asked her, before episode one, what she was even going to talk about after two weeks of a horse podcast. Sixteen years and 4000 episodes later, that question still makes her laugh. Glenn books guests only a week or two out, and most of the show's four or five segments per episode get planned the morning of. Being daily is actually their advantage: they can be timely in a way most podcasts can't.
Glenn admitted he basically is the show-prep service. Google Alerts and AI help him find stories faster than they used to, but the instinct for what's worth talking about still comes down to two to three hours of prep every single morning.
Segments Give You Somewhere to Put Your Energy
Jamie is the storyteller. Glenn plays the guy reacting to it. He described their pre-show routine: Jamie says she's got a two-to-five-minute story, and he already knows it's going to stretch to twenty minutes and he'll happily let it. That contrast, he said, is what makes the show work.
I've got segments on this show too (if you've got a favorite segment idea, feel free to send it in). One of mine is built entirely out of "this happened because I have a podcast." I used to do a "last five in five" segment where I'd share the last five things I listened to in under five minutes. Segments are useful because they don't all have to show up in every episode. When I don't have a big topic, I create a "podcast stew," a handful of small segments squeezed together. Takes the pressure off having to fill a big block of time. An episode just needs to be as long as it needs to be, and not a minute more.
Building a Community That Actually Talks to Each Other
Glenn says their community basically built itself once Patreon entered the picture around nine or ten years ago. One of their own listeners asked if she could start a private Facebook group for supporters, and it's grown into 30+ subgroups on everything from dogs to mental health, plus in-person meetups they run themselves.
Glenn's take, and I completely agree: the biggest mistake podcasters make when they say they want "community" is giving people no actual place to talk to each other. A community needs a room. You don't have a true community until they can talk to each other.
They get supporters directly involved too, birthdays shouted out on air, segment material submitted by listeners themselves. If your audience made the content, you already know they're going to like it.
Sponsors Who Become Part of the Family
Jamie and Glenn have given away more than $80,000 in prizes over 16 years, largely funded by sponsors who get a bit of airtime in exchange for product. Those relationships often graduate into full paid sponsorships once the brand sees it works.
That reminded me of Mark from Beyond Bourbon Street, a past guest of mine (episode 829) who had Two Chicks Walking Tours as a sponsor, then had listeners telling him in his own community that they'd taken the tour and loved it. That's the kind of proof that makes a sponsorship renewal conversation easy. And speaking of sponsors sticking around, I was listening to The New Media Show recently and they mentioned Todd Cochran had GoDaddy as a sponsor for around 21 years.
The Focus Group Most Podcasts Never Bother With
This one floored me. On top of their broader Patreon community, Glenn and Jamie run a rotating focus group of 12 listeners every six months whose entire job is to comment on every single episode. Every episode gets six to twelve honest responses.
That feedback has actually killed segments. They ran an "animal psychics" bit for a while that they personally enjoyed, but the negative response outweighed the positive, so it's gone. If you're going to ask your paying supporters for their opinion, you have to actually be willing to act on it.
Handling the People Who Don't Like You
Glenn's rule, learned from ten years running an improv theater company: about 80% of any audience likes what you do, and 20% doesn't. That ratio doesn't change. You're not making the show for the 20%. You're making it for the 80%, and Glenn pointed out the harder truth: a chunk of that 20% keeps listening anyway, seemingly just to be annoyed. Let it go.
Jamie added that after the true fans and the negative Nellies, there's a middle group whose feedback is the most useful because it's the most honest.
The Most Popular Segment Isn't the Guests
Right before hitting 4000 episodes, they surveyed listeners on favorite segments. The winner, by a wide margin: pure host banter, just Glenn and Jamie talking about nothing. Their biggest listener complaint over the years has actually been "too many guests." As Glenn put it, people come for the content and stay for the hosts.
What It Takes to Actually Make Money Doing This
Glenn's advice for a new podcaster wondering when the money shows up: niches make it easier. Horse people, in his words, are some of the most dedicated hobbyists out there, and that's true of plenty of other niches too (cycling, golf, you name it). Small and mid-sized brands without their own ad agencies are the sweet spot, and Glenn's found 80% of his sponsors by showing up in person at trade shows and introducing himself at every booth. He's been to 38 of them.
Their own listener survey backs this up: 80% of listeners said they'd bought a product because Glenn and Jamie talked about it on air in the last year. Only 25% said the same about a banner ad. Trust is the entire business model.
Doing the Show Sick, and Other Real-Talk Moments
When you're sick, you address it up front. Ignoring it doesn't work, because that's all the listener will focus on anyway. Same goes for a loud remote recording location. Be real about it and people roll with it, sometimes they even prefer it.
One detail that stuck with me: Jamie trains off-the-track thoroughbreds and has personally placed horses with listeners in 18 different states just by mentioning them on the show. That's community turned into real-world impact.
My Takeaways After the Interview
A few things I wanted to add once the mic was off:
Contact info matters more than you think. Always tell people how to reach you. For me that's schoolofpodcasting.com/contact. Someone recently told me they'd left a comment on my Substack and had no idea if I'd seen it, because I hadn't told them how I check for those.
Where to find ideas, beyond hanging out with your audience the way Glenn does: Google Alerts will tell you anytime a topic (or your name) gets mentioned online. Answer the Public shows you what people are actually typing into search around a topic. Or just Google your topic and scroll down to "People Also Ask."
On Podcast Movement: I wasn't selected to speak this year, which is the first time that's happened after speaking at every single one. Disappointing, sure, but I'll still be there to say hi, and I'll have more free time than usual. I am speaking at the Empowered Podcasting Conference in Charlotte, NC, and at PodIndy in November.
Lesson...

If you look at movies that you love, and you think about them, and you remember how they made you feel. Today we talk about three things you can have in your tool belt to use in your show to not just have something to listen to, but to have content that moves your audience. We also answer the question what do Sportcasters, Movie Reviewers, and Christians all have in common?
Pull Some Emotion Into Your Show
Most podcasters focus on information—tips, tactics, and how‑tos. But your audience doesn’t connect to information first; they connect to emotion first.
Three Tools To Boost Connection
Nostalgia
Storytelling
Vulnerability

As the old saying goes, "with great power comes great responsibility," so how do we use these ingredients in our show without sounding like we starting the sympathy engine just to grab attention?
What Do Christians, Movie Reviewer, and Sportscasters all have in common?
They are all working with the same source material. The same bible (more or less), the same movies, the same games. In this episode we talk about how to make your show stand out?
The Best Book on StoryTelling
I've read MANY books on storytelling, but Storyworthy by Matthew Dicks is the best - period. The audiobook is so good you will want to listen with a pad and pencil to take notes (or if you're loving in 2026, take notes on your phone).
Ready To Start Your Podcast?
Podcasting in Six Weeks
Mentioned in this episode:
Live Appearances
I love to meet people when I'm on the road. I'm going to be at
Empowered Podcasting Conference in Charlotte NC
Podcast Movement in NYC
Podindy in Indianapolis In.
For more information and links, go to schoolofpodcasting.com/where
To have me speak at your event, reach out at schoolofpodcasting.com/contacnt
Where Will I Be?
Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads
We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why?
Does the size of your audience matter?
Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)
School of Podcasting
Take Live Classes at the School of Podcasting
Podcasting in Six Weeks is BACK! (and this time it's free!)
We are continuing to experiment with marketing, and we had so much fun helping people launch their show that we are going it again (and dropped the fee). If you don't have a show but want to start one this is THE place to get going in the right direction.
Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks

Growing Your Podcast Live Course
For members of the School of Podcasting we are all banding together to go through the steps of growing your show (so sign up now!). This will including feedback and strategies to get your show growing faster. You will write down your typical downloads before you start, and compare it to the final numbers. Use the coupon code listener when singing up to become a member and receive a discount.

These live classes start August 19th. Please let me know if you have any questions at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact
School of Podcasting

What if one book could change the way you tell stories, connect with your audience, or even see your own podcast? In this episode of the School of Podcasting, I asked a simple question: “If you found out someone was a content creator, what book would you recommend?” — and the responses were pure gold.
You’ll hear from working podcasters, educators, business owners, and storytellers sharing the books that sharpened their craft, grew their communities, and kept them going when numbers and algorithms tried to wear them down. Along the way, I share my own must‑reads and pay tribute to a podcasting legend whose work shaped an entire generation of creators. If you’re ready to level up your show — not with more gear, but with better thinking, storytelling, and heart — this is the episode you’ll want to queue up next.
Participants
Kim Newlove
The Pharmacist Voice Podcast
The Perrysburg Podcast
Ralph Estep Jr.
The Content Creators Accountant
https://ralphestepjr.com
Chris Nessi
House of EdTech
Mark Lawley
Practical Prepping Podcast
Nancy May (with co‑host Sylvia France)
Family Tree Food Stories Podcast
Dave Cohen
The Shakespeare Mindset
Tom Haley
Bluegrass Region Voices and Views
Books Mentioned
Find Your Red Thread: Make Your Big Ideas - Tamsen Webster
The Audience Is Listening: A Little Guide to Building a Big Podcast – Tom Webster
How to Win Friends and Influence People - Dale Carnegie
Sacred Cows Make the Best Burgers – Robert J. Kriegel, David Brandt
12 and a Half: Leveraging the Emotional Ingredients Necessary for Business Success – Gary Vaynerchuk
Acres of Diamonds – Jentezen Franklin
Hello, My Name Is Awesome: How to Create Brand Names That Stick – Alexandra Watkins
Into the Woods: A Five-Act Journey Into Story – John Yorke
Build a Strong Podcast: From Creation to Captivated Audience – Jennifer Longworth
Make Noise: A Creator’s Guide to Podcasting and Great Audio Storytelling – Eric Nuzum
Storyworthy: Engage, Teach, Persuade, and Change Your Life Through the Power of Storytelling – Matthew Dicks
Platform: Get Noticed in a Noisy World – A Step-by-Step Guide for Anyone with Something to Say or Sell – Michael Hyatt
Big Podcast: Grow Your Podcast Audience, Build Listener Loyalty, and Get Everybody Talking About Your Show – David Hooper
So You Want to Start a Podcast: Finding Your Voice, Telling Your Story, and Building a Community That Will Listen – Kristen Meinzer
Out on the Wire: The Storytelling Secrets of the New Masters of Radio – Jessica Abel
Beyond Powerful Radio: A Communicator’s Guide to the Internet Age – Valerie Geller
Secrets of Dynamic Communication: Prepare with Focus, Deliver with Clarity, Speak with Power – Ken Davis
Sponsor Magnet – Justin Moore
Profit from Your Podcast: Turn Your Listeners into a Livelihood – Dave Jackson
Looking for more books on podcasting? Check here
In Honor of John C. Dvorak
The Grief Recovery Handbook: The Action Program for Moving Beyond Death, Divorce, and Other Losses (20th Anniversary Expanded Edition) – John W. James, Russell Friedman
John was an amazing broadcaster. More thoughts on John's Impact.
Mentioned in this episode:
Build the Website You Want with Podpage
Podpage is flexible. If you want to promote something you can put it in the sidebar, on the front page, or at the bottom of every episode (not to mention the navigation bar, the footer and more). Podpage is designed specifically for podcasts. Quit trying to squeeze your podcast into a website made for a yoga studio. Start your free trial at podpage.com/preview
Podpage
Take Live Classes at the School of Podcasting
Podcasting in Six Weeks is BACK! (and this time it's free!)
We are continuing to experiment with marketing, and we had so much fun helping people launch their show that we are going it again (and dropped the fee). If you don't have a show but want to start one this is THE place to get going in the right direction.
Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks

Growing Your Podcast Live Course
For members of the School of Podcasting we are all banding together to go through the steps of growing your show (so sign up now!). This will including feedback and strategies to get your show growing faster. You will write down your typical downloads before you start, and compare it to the final numbers. Use the coupon code listener when singing up to become a member and receive a discount.

These live classes start August 19th. Please let me know if you have any questions at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact
School of Podcasting
Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads
We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why?
Does the size of your audience matter?
Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)
School of Podcasting
Live Appearances
I love to meet people when I'm on the road. I'm going to be at
Empowered Podcasting Conference in Charlotte NC
Podcast Movement in NYC
Podindy in Indianapolis In.
For more information and links, go to schoolofpodcasting.com/where
To have me speak at your event, reach out at schoolofpodcasting.com/contacnt
Where Will I Be?

When your CPMs start shrinking and programmatic ads feel like a losing game, it’s easy to wonder if podcasting is still worth it. In this episode, I want to show you a different path—one that doesn’t depend on ad tech behaving itself. I’m going to walk you through why community beats downloads, how smart feedback (like what Jack Rhysider does) can radically improve your show before it ever launches, and how simple tools like newsletters and Podpage can help you build a deeper relationship with your audience so your podcast is future‑proof, no matter what happens to ad rates.
Don't Take My Word For It
I heard it from on the Podbiz Show. Hall of Famer Leo Laporte shares a bit of history with ads, and Podfather Adam Curry explains how to future-proof your podcast. Brian Barletta explains how we need to move on from trying to get stats that are not possible, and focus on growing the industry.
Get Your Head Straight
I also talk about how I was inspired by writer Talyor Sheridan cold care less about the critics. He write the way he wants to write, about what he wants to write about and now his audience has found him and he is making a killing.
Get Your Content Straight
Geddy Lee has been performing in the band Rush for 50+ years and yet he still takes time to evaluate his playing. When we try to market "Meh" content we are wasting our time.
The Podcast Atlas Report
Sounds Profitable has released the Podcast Atlas Report which approaches the industry from the creators point of view. Some great insights into clips, newsletters, and more.
This content may contain affiliate links, meaning I earn a small commission if you purchase through these links at no additional cost to you. I only recommend products or services I trust and believe will provide value to you. Thank you for your support!
Takeaways:
If you're feeling stuck with your podcast due to falling ad revenues, listen up!
Forget chasing ad dollars; focus on building a loyal community that supports your podcasting journey.
The real gold in podcasting isn’t just downloads; it’s about creating genuine connections with your listeners.
Ads might be declining, but trust me, building a community will make your podcast thrive in the long run.
The future of podcasting is all about community and trust, not just numbers on a screen.
If you want to grow your podcast, start by picking one simple thing to engage with your audience.

Also Mentioned:
Sponsor Magnet Book
Podpage - Podcast Website Builder
Ray Arnott Interview - Around the Layout
Community Resources
Heartbeat (We use this for the School of Podcasting)
Circle
Skool (affordable, simple community)
Newsletter Tools
Kit (formerly Convertkit)
Mailerlite
Beehiiv
(and many more)
Mentioned in this episode:
Question of the Month: The Smallest Amount of Downloads
We all want a bigger audience. We all put a lot of work into our shows. With this in mind, what is the smallest amount of downloads you would do the show for? If it drops below a number would you stop, or put effort into finding out why?
Does the size of your audience matter?
Go to schoolofpodcasting.com/question by August 28th (and don't forget to say a little bit about your show and your website address so I can link to it in the notes)
School of Podcasting
Live Appearances
I love to meet people when I'm on the road. I'm going to be at
Empowered Podcasting Conference in Charlotte NC
Podcast Movement in NYC
Podindy in Indianapolis In.
For more information and links, go to schoolofpodcasting.com/where
To have me speak at your event, reach out at schoolofpodcasting.com/contacnt
Where Will I Be?
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Don't miss out on staying ahead of the game—join the 1700+ people who are already reading Podcasting Observations today!
Podcasting Observations
Take Live Classes at the School of Podcasting
Podcasting in Six Weeks is BACK! (and this time it's free!)
We are continuing to experiment with marketing, and we had so much fun helping people launch their show that we are going it again (and dropped the fee). If you don't have a show but want to start one this is THE place to get going in the right direction.
Go to www.schoolofpodcasting.com/sixweeks

Growing Your Podcast Live Course
For members of the School of Podcasting we are all banding together to go through the steps of growing your show (so sign up now!). This will including feedback and strategies to get your show growing faster. You will write down your typical downloads before you start, and compare it to the final numbers. Use the coupon code listener when singing up to become a member and receive a discount.

These live classes start August 19th. Please let me know if you have any questions at schoolofpodcasting.com/contact
School of Podcasting