Ahrefs Podcast

ZoomInfo powers the world's outbound prospecting — and gets the majority of its own new business from inbound. Tal Raz, ZoomInfo's CMO, explains the flywheel behind a $1.2B ARR go-to-market machine.
Tal is a nine-year veteran of ZoomInfo who joined as a marketing analyst and built her way to the C-suite by obsessing over funnel gaps, data quality, and campaign execution. She now leads a ~100-person global marketing team and is one of the architects behind how ZoomInfo actually goes to market — using its own platform to do it.
In this conversation, Tal explains why AI tools like ChatGPT and Gemini are doing the buyer research that used to land on your website — and what that means for inbound-dependent companies. She breaks down why most AI-powered outreach fails (it's a data problem, not an AI problem), how GTM Studio compresses a weeks-long campaign launch into hours, and what "no leaders leaders" looks like as a real operating philosophy inside a public company.
EPISODE CHAPTERS
(00:00) Intro
(01:11) Why ZoomInfo — master of outbound — relies on inbound for most new revenue
(07:18) Why AI search (ChatGPT, Gemini) is dismantling traditional SEO-driven inbound
(11:01) The execution gap: why AI-powered outreach so often gets it wrong
(15:33) GTM Studio: how to compress weeks of campaign prep into hours
(23:23) AI SDRs — real replacement for human sales reps, or just hype?
(27:42) Managing a 100-person global marketing team from Israel
(33:11) How to measure marketing by working backwards from ACV, not MQLs
(41:46) What Henry Schuck really thinks about brand marketing
(44:58) The apology billboard: turning a product failure into a campaign
(50:50) Labubu at Dreamforce: making the case for playful B2B marketing
(54:18) "No leaders leaders": why ZoomInfo's C-suite stays in the weeds
(57:56) From marketing analyst to CMO: Tal's 9-year journey at one company
(01:04:56) How AI is changing what it means to be a marketer
(01:10:22) Rapid fire: favorite book, admired company, and thought leader

WHERE TO FIND TAL
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tal-raz-46529620/
WHERE TO FIND TIM
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/
X: @timsouloWebsite: https://www.timsoulo.com/
REFERENCED
ZoomInfo: https://www.zoominfo.com/
ZoomInfo GTM Studio: https://www.zoominfo.com/products/gtm-studio
Gamma (the "Office" campaign): https://gamma.app/
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People (Stephen Covey): https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36072.The_7_Habits_of_Highly_Effective_People
Kieran Flanagan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kieranjflanagan
Labubu (Pop Mart): https://www.popmart.com/us
Ahrefs: https://ahrefs.com

Gamma is everywhere right now. With viral videos starring Rainn Wilson, massive drone shows over San Francisco, and a valuation of $2.1 billion, this AI startup has mastered the art of capturing attention in a crowded market. But behind these huge stunts is a surprisingly small, scrappy team using a very specific playbook to punch way above their weight class.

My guest today is Kristin Fracchia, the Head of Marketing at Gamma. She’s the architect behind the company’s explosive growth to 70 million users and its transition from a quiet product-led company to a brand that dominates the conversation. Kristin reveals how she orchestrates “audacious” marketing moments that break the internet without breaking the bank.

In this episode, we deconstruct the exact strategies Gamma uses to go viral repeatedly. You’ll learn how to manufacture “luck” in PR, why unscalable influencer marketing is your biggest advantage, and how to execute massive brand stunts like The Sphere and celebrity cameos—even if you’re just a team of ten.

Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode:

(00:00) Intro
(01:29) The “Audacious” Launch Playbook for breaking through AI noise
(05:28) Why constant shipping kills marketing momentum (and what to do instead)
(10:38) The “Twist” Framework: How changing one element makes you viral
(12:30) Landing a New York Times exclusive without a big agency
(16:31) How to find the unique angle journalists actually care about
(20:34) Scaling influencer marketing from manual outreach to 70M users
(23:36) Why you can’t track ROI on influencers (and the proxy metric to use instead)
(28:54) The “How did you hear about us?” attribution model
(35:51) The strategy behind Gamma’s viral video parodies (Severance, Mission Impossible)
(41:00) How Kristin used ChatGPT to negotiate a contract with Rainn Wilson
(46:11) The real cost of celebrity cameos for B2B startups
(48:01) Why distribution matters more than the creative asset itself
(52:52) Production costs: When to go in-house vs. hiring an agency
(56:44) Exploiting the “Gap”: How Gamma hacked The Sphere in Las Vegas
(01:03:28) Orchestrating a 4,000-person drone show using existing events
(01:08:55) “Peacocking”: Why your brand is your marketing budget
(01:12:21) Using AI Tarot cards to win at Dreamforce
(01:13:42) Rapid Fire: Favorite books and marketing inspirations

LINKS:

Connect with Kristin:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristinfracchia/
Twitter: @KristinFracchia
Website: https://gamma.app/

Connect with Tim:

Where to find Tim:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/
X: @timsoulo
Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/

References:
“Audacious” by Mark Schaefer : https://businessesgrow.com/audacious/
Lenny’s Podcast:  ⁨@LennysPodcast⁩
Claire Vo (Product/AI thought leader): https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairevo/

Most marketers use AI to write generic emails.
Kieran Flanagan used it to increase sales meetings by 30% and build a “Chief of Staff” that manages his 350-person team.

Kieran is the SVP of Marketing at HubSpot, where he has helped scale the company from 250 to over 7,000 employees.
He is also the co-host of the popular “Marketing Against the Grain” podcast.
In other words, Kieran doesn’t just theorize about AI; he is actively “vibe coding” custom internal tools to overhaul HubSpot’s entire go-to-market motion.

In this episode, Kieran opens his laptop to show exactly how he builds custom AI agents that extract viral talking points from video, automate complex management reporting from Slack, and personalize outreach at massive scale.

Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode:

The “Vibe Coding” Strategy: Why building your own simple tools beats buying off-the-shelf software.

30% More Meetings: The exact email workflow change that drove massive sales efficiency.

Management Automation: How to use AI to summarize weekly team activity and identify blockers across 350 employees.

The Death of Prompt Engineering: Why “context grafting” and intent matching are replacing complex prompts.

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 - Introduction
00:30 - Managing a 350-person team at HubSpot
04:05 - How AI drove a 30% increase in sales meetings
08:07 - Building custom data sets for personalized outreach
14:47 - Demo: Kieran’s custom “Viral Talking Points” tool
21:18 - Why “Vibe Coding” is the future of marketing workflows
25:49 - Turning video transcripts into high-performing LinkedIn posts
30:45 - The evolution of prompt engineering (and why it’s dying)
38:37 - The “Shakespeare Trap” of using AI for feedback
42:30 - Using AI agents for deep research and storytelling
50:28 - Automating management: Summarizing Slack and identifying blockers
59:05 - Why AI makes creativity more valuable, not less
01:02:40 - The #1 trait Kieran looks for when hiring
01:03:15 - Sneak peek: AI agents inside Google Sheets

Where to find Kieran:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kieranjflanagan/
X: @searchbrat
Website: https://www.kieranflanagan.io/ , https://www.hubspot.com/
Podcast: @MATGpod

Where to find Tim:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/
X: @timsoulo
Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/

Is SEO actually dying, or are you just listening to the wrong people?
While the media claims that AI is causing a 25% traffic collapse, data from 40,000 of the largest websites in the U.S. tells a completely different story.
In this episode, Ethan Smith (CEO of Graphite) joins Tim Soulo to perform SEO Necromancy — resurrecting search from the dead by debunking the biggest myths in the industry.
Ethan is widely regarded as the leading expert on Answer Engine Optimization (AEO), having built growth engines for brands like Instagram, Robinhood, and BetterUp. He doesn’t just share opinions; he shares data-backed insights from his recent study on how search behavior is actually shifting.
You’ll hear why the rise of ChatGPT isn’t the Google killer everyone predicted, how small websites are actually gaining traffic in the AI era, and the exact strategy you need to ensure your brand is cited by LLMs.
Here’s what you’ll learn in this episode:

00:00 - Intro
01:00 - Why AI isn’t actually killing the web
04:49 - Measuring the real traffic drop
07:31 - The winners and losers of the AI traffic shift
13:24 - How AI behaviors are expanding the search pie
18:18 - Cleaning up outdated and inaccurate citations
23:28 - Why SEO and AEO are the same thing
27:09 - Why your AI tracking is biased
38:33 - Mining sales calls and Reddit for high-intent prompts
41:29 - How to win the RAG citation game
47:29 - Why being #15 in citations is better than #15 in Google
51:04 - ChatGPT vs Gemini vs Perplexity: where to focus first?

Where to find Ethan:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanls/
Website: https://graphite.io/

Where to find Tim:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/
X: @timsoulo
Website: https://www.timsoulo.com/

Early-stage marketing is often a race for reach, but Jay Acunzo argues that resonance is the only metric that actually moves the needle in 2026.
Jay is the former Head of Content at HubSpot and Google, a world-renowned keynote speaker, and an expert in storytelling. He has helped countless brands find their "Premise"—the distinct point of view that makes them irreplaceable in a sea of commodities.
In this episode, Jay breaks down why "being the best" is a losing game and why "being their favorite" is the ultimate competitive advantage.
Here's what you'll learn:
(00:00) Intro
(01:24) Why "Marketing More" is a trap in the AI era
(04:16) Why 100 fans beat 100,000 followers
(07:36) The Disney Strategy: Why you should stop trying to be "The Best"
(09:52) Using Unsolicited Response Rate (URR) to measure resonance
(13:50) How to close deals faster by making people care
(16:21) Why generic content is dead (and how to find your "Premise")
(24:13) Why brands need personalities to survive
(28:55) 5 steps to differentiate your brand
(34:38) The Wistia Example: Why your homepage copy isn't your message
(41:55) Future-proofing your content for 2026
(51:09) The right way to use LLMs in creative work
(59:40) Why you can't automate thought leadership

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Ahrefs Podcast!
Where to find Jay:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jayacunzo/
Website: https://jayacunzo.com/
Where to find Tim:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timsoulo/
X: @timsoulo
Referenced:
HubSpot, Wistia, Google, SparkToro, TopRank Marketing, Anthony Bourdain, Andrew Davis, Melanie Deziel.