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Notice That

Jen Savage and Bridger Falkenstien
Notice That
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  • EMDR 2.0: A Conversation with Suzy Matthijssen & Ad de Jongh
    EMDR 2.0: A Conversation with Suzy Matthijssen & Ad de JonghRecorded live at the EMDRIA conference, Bridger and Jen sit down with the developers of EMDR 2.0, Suzy Matthijssen and Ad de Jongh. Together, they explore how intensive trauma treatment, working memory taxation, and reconsolidation theory are shaping the next generation of EMDR. From four-sessions-a-day protocols to online innovations born during COVID, this conversation brings cutting-edge clinical research into dialogue with the everyday realities of client care.SummaryIn this special conference episode of Notice That, Jen and Bridger interview Suzy Matthijssen and Ad de Jongh, two of the leading voices behind EMDR 2.0. The conversation moves between history, research, and practice, offering clinicians a front-row seat to the evolution of trauma treatment.Key Themes:Origins of Intensive Trauma Treatment Suzy and Ad describe how intensive models—four sessions a day across multiple days—emerged from working with treatment-resistant clients and evolved further during the pandemic into effective online formats.The Science of EMDR 2.0 They outline three core pillars:Activation – ensuring traumatic memories are fully brought into working memory.Taxation – increasing working memory load through diverse tasks (eye movements, spelling, music interference, etc.) to reduce vividness and emotionality.Motivation – equipping clients to actively engage in bringing memories forward rather than passively relying on the therapist.Reconsolidation vs. Suppression The guests emphasize the importance of ensuring memories are altered and reconsolidated—not avoided or suppressed. Special techniques like blind-to-therapist protocols and flash-forward work help clients stay engaged while navigating shame, fear, or anticipatory anxiety.Rethinking Stabilization EMDR 2.0 challenges the assumption that long stabilization phases are necessary. Instead, therapists are encouraged to begin trauma processing sooner while maintaining attunement and supporting clients within their window of tolerance.The Future of EMDR Suzy and Ad share their vision of expanding EMDR beyond PTSD guidelines into personality disorders, depression, and anxiety—arguing that wherever intrusive memories or imagery are at the core of symptomatology, EMDR should play a central role.This episode highlights how EMDR 2.0 builds on the original eight-phase protocol while integrating decades of research, pointing toward a future where trauma treatment is more efficient, intensive, and broadly applied.If you want to learn more about EMDR 2.0, head over to www.enhancingtraumatreatment.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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  • Why So Many Protocols?: EMDR Modifications and Their Common Themes
    In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen continue the Back to Basics series by exploring the ever-expanding landscape of EMDR protocols. Why are there so many? Do we really need a new protocol for every presentation, or are there deeper themes that connect them all?We discuss:The difference between the standard 8-phase protocol and the many specialized variationsCommon themes across protocols, such as the three-pronged approach (past, present, future), dual attention, and externalizationHow to discern when to use a specialized protocol and when to trust your clinical creativity within the standard frameworkWhy case conceptualization is more powerful than memorizing endless techniquesWhether you’re new to EMDR or a seasoned clinician, this episode will help you feel less overwhelmed by the “protocol overload” and more confident in your ability to adapt EMDR to your clients’ unique needs.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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  • Enactment-Focused EMDR: Reclaiming the Relational Thread
    In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen reconnect after a summer hiatus, weaving personal updates with professional developments that have defined their recent months. Highlights include:Summer Life & New Beginnings – From extended family time and outdoor writing sessions to the surprise timing of Willa Jean’s birth during an EMDR basic training, they share stories that set the tone for a season of growth and transition.Book Development – They offer a behind-the-scenes look at their collaborative process for The Relational Thread, including how they balance poetic relational writing with research-driven legitimacy, structure chapters, and aim to make dense concepts approachable for any clinician.Enactment-Focused EMDR – A preview of their upcoming EMDRIA conference presentation, exploring how enactments reveal the “space between” attachment wounds and why modifying EMDR protocol to center relational dynamics can deepen healing. They outline the theory, the three-layered strategy framework, and the role of the therapeutic relationship as both a mirror and a practice ground for change.Bringing it All Together – Both the book and the EF-EMDR protocol grow from the same root: a commitment to address the gaps in EMDR literature, elevate the role of relationship, and invite clinicians into creative, responsive work that goes beyond scripts.Listeners will leave with a richer understanding of enactments, practical insight into relationally informed EMDR, and a peek at what’s to come in their training and writing projects.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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  • EMDR Meets Play: Healing Through Curiosity and Connection with Christine Mark-Griffin
    What happens when EMDR and play therapy collide? In this episode, Bridger and Jen sit down with Christine Mark-Griffin—EMDR child therapist, trainer, and author of The EMDR Workbook for Kids—to explore the art and science of bringing EMDR to children and families. Together they unpack the power of play as a language for healing, how to work with parents as co-regulators, and why case conceptualization is key for working with kids in ongoing trauma. From Roblox as a safe place to the sacred vulnerability of a child pointing to a doll, this conversation invites therapists to join the world of the child—rather than asking the child to join ours.Whether you’re new to working with kids or ready to deepen your practice, Christine’s insights will leave you inspired to bring more creativity and compassion into your EMDR work.🎧 Listen now to discover why Christine calls EMDR a superpower for kids—and why we desperately need more EMDR child therapists in the world.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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  • EMDR and The Brain's Networks: A Conversation About Modern Neruoscience
    Why Does EMDR Work? A Dive into Network Neuroscience and the Brain’s Healing PotentialEye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) has transformed trauma therapy, but an age-old question lingers: How does it actually work?For decades, the EMDR community has debated this question. Early theories focused on specific brain structures—the hippocampus for memory, the amygdala for fear, the prefrontal cortex for executive control. This modular perspective helped us make sense of a complex process. But neuroscience has evolved, and so has our understanding.In Episode 2 of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, Bridger Falkenstien and Jen Savage explore a paradigm shift—from modular to network neuroscience—and how this broader lens reshapes the way we think about trauma, healing, and EMDR.From Modules to Networks: A Shift in Understanding the BrainTraditionally, neuroscience taught us that individual brain regions had specific jobs. The amygdala processes fear. The hippocampus handles memory. The prefrontal cortex regulates impulses.This modular view isn’t wrong—it’s just incomplete.In reality, the brain functions as a dynamic, interconnected system of networks. Modern neuroscience shows us that even when one area specializes in a task, it does so within a web of relationships. Trauma doesn’t just impact a single region; it disrupts the collaboration between networks.This is where network neuroscience comes in. Instead of asking which part of the brain?, we ask:Which networks are interacting?How are they integrating—or failing to integrate—under stress?How does EMDR facilitate re-integration?Meet the Big Three: Core Brain Networks in Trauma and HealingResearch in network neuroscience highlights three large-scale networks that play a crucial role in both trauma and recovery:1. Salience Network (SN)Function: Detects and filters what’s important—internal sensations, external stimuli, emotional cues—and decides what deserves attention.Trauma Impact: Becomes hypervigilant or shut down, tagging even neutral cues as threats.In EMDR: Helps shift between the past (default mode) and present (executive control).2. Default Mode Network (DMN)Function: Self-reflection, autobiographical memory, mentalizing (“Who am I? What happened to me?”).Trauma Impact: Loops in shame, rumination, and “frozen” identity narratives.In EMDR: Holds the story of the traumatic experience and the meanings made from it.3. Central Executive Network (CEN)Function: Working memory, decision-making, regulating attention.Trauma Impact: Goes offline in overwhelm, leaving clients unable to think clearly or plan.In EMDR: Critical for top-down regulation of subcortical processes.These networks don’t operate in isolation—they’re in constant conversation. Trauma disrupts that conversation, leading to disintegration. Healing requires restoring their collaborative flow.How EMDR Works in the Brain: Beyond the ProtocolDuring EMDR, when a traumatic memory is activated (Phase 3) and bilateral stimulation (BLS) is applied, something remarkable happens:The SN flags the traumatic memory as salient—“Pay attention. This matters.”The DMN pulls up self-referential meaning—“This means I’m unsafe/useless/etc.”The CEN is invited back online through dual attention tasks, helping the client hold both the memory and the present moment in awareness.This isn’t just a mechanical process. It’s a forced redistribution of cognitive resources that breaks the brain out of its trauma-locked loop.As Bridger explains:“It’s like unpacking an avalanche—slowly taking out the debris so the mountain can reorganize.”The goal isn’t just to desensitize distress. It’s to help the networks regain their natural flow—so that the body and mind no longer behave as if the trauma is still happening.The Role of Working Memory TheoryWorking Memory Theory suggests that when we overload the brain’s working memory—by recalling the traumatic memory while engaging in a second task like BLS—the vividness and emotional charge of the memory fade.This theory helps explain why EMDR works, but it’s not the whole story.Strength: Shows how “dual attention” can disrupt trauma loops.Limitation: Doesn’t account for why some clients feel worse after sessions or why deeper transformation requires relational safety.This is why Beyond Healing integrates working memory theory within a larger, network-based, relational perspective.Why Therapists Should Care About NeuroscienceSome may wonder: Why bother with all this neuroscience? Isn’t it enough to follow the EMDR protocol?Here’s why it matters: ✅ Understanding networks builds confidence in the method. ✅ It empowers therapists to adjust their interventions with intention. ✅ It helps clinicians see why attunement and resourcing aren’t optional—they’re essential to reintegration.As Savage reflects in the episode:“This shifts us from memorizing a protocol to creatively, relationally helping clients heal.”Key Takeaways for CliniciansEMDR works by regulating relationships between the SN, DMN, and CEN.BLS is more than eye movements—it’s a physiological regulator.Attunement and relational safety are as critical as technical precision.Neuroscience doesn’t limit creativity—it expands it.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
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An EMDR Podcast
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