Notice That

In this return to our Back to Basics series, we’re diving into one of the most misunderstood—and often over-scripted—parts of EMDR therapy: interweaves.
If you were trained to think of interweaves as something you “pull out of a list” when a client gets stuck, you’re not alone. But what if interweaves aren’t about saying the right thing… and instead about understanding what the system needs next?
In this episode, we explore:
What interweaves are actually doing in the brain and nervous system
Why “cognitive interweaves” are only part of the story
How stuckness in EMDR often reflects deeper relational and developmental patterns
The difference between interrupting processing vs. supporting movement
How to move from rigid scripts to relational, somatic, and intuitive interweaves
Why some interweaves increase distress—and why that’s not a failure

We walk through core categories from Francine Shapiro's EMDR: Basic Principles, Protocols, and Procedures (responsibility, safety, and choice), while also expanding into a more integrative framework that includes:
Somatic interweaves
Affective interweaves
Relational and resource-based interweaves

You’ll also hear real clinical reflections on:
Why “I’m confused…” doesn’t always land
How metaphor, imagery, and even humor can unlock stuck processing
When to stay out of the way… and when your presence matters most

Ultimately, this conversation reframes interweaves not as a technique—but as a relational intervention grounded in attunement, timing, and case conceptualization.
If you’ve ever found yourself thinking:
“What do I say right now?”
This episode will help you shift toward:
“What does my client’s system need right now?”
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What happens when one of the most meaningful seasons of life—pregnancy and early parenthood—collides with trauma, grief, and attachment wounds?
In this episode of Notice That, we sit down with perinatal mental health specialist Bethany Warren to explore how EMDR therapy can be used safely and effectively with pregnant and postpartum clients—and why so many clinicians have been taught otherwise.
Together, we unpack:
The most common myths about EMDR in pregnancy (and what the research actually says)
Why “just resourcing” may unintentionally limit healing
How attachment wounds, identity shifts, and grief show up in the perinatal period
The difference between trauma and the deeper layers of loss
How EMDR helps untangle both present-day distress and long-standing relational patterns

We also explore the emotional reality of becoming a parent—the unexpected grief, the vulnerability of attachment, and the ways our own histories come alive in this stage of life.
This conversation is both clinically rich and deeply human—an invitation to rethink how we approach trauma, healing, and development in one of the most transformative seasons of life.
Whether you’re an EMDR clinician or simply someone navigating parenthood, this episode offers a powerful lens into what it means to heal while becoming.
Connect with Bethany Warren:
Website: https://bethanywarrenlcsw.com/
Perinatal EMDR Training (HAP): https://www.traumarecoveryhap.org/course/warren-perinatal-clients
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Becoming a parent is often described as one of life’s most joyful milestones. But what happens psychologically, relationally, and neurologically during the transition into parenthood is far more complex — and far less discussed — than many clinicians realize.
In this episode of Notice That: An EMDR Podcast, Bridger and Jen sit down with psychologist and EMDR consultant Dr. Nirit Gordon to explore the profound developmental, attachment-based, and trauma-related shifts that occur during the perinatal period. Drawing from feminist theory, attachment research, evolutionary anthropology, and clinical EMDR practice, this conversation reframes the transition to parenthood as a sensitive developmental stage comparable to adolescence — a time marked by identity reorganization, heightened emotional activation, relational stress, and the resurfacing of unresolved attachment wounds.
Together, we explore:
Why perinatal mental health is one of the most under-recognized areas in trauma treatment
How attachment memories and developmental trauma networks reactivate during pregnancy and early parenting
The concept of matrescence and its implications for case conceptualization Why fathers and partners undergo neurobiological and hormonal shifts during early parenting
How modern parenting culture conflicts with evolutionary caregiving needs
The myth of constant parental attunement and what attachment research actually shows
Birth trauma and systemic gaps in trauma-informed obstetric care Using babies as resources in EMDR therapy
The clinical importance of including perinatal experiences in Phase 1 history taking How therapists can support identity transformation during early parenthood

This episode invites clinicians to expand their understanding of trauma, development, and relational memory — and to consider the perinatal period not simply as a life event, but as a critical neurobiological and psychological window for therapeutic intervention. Whether you work directly with parents or not, this conversation offers a powerful lens for understanding how attachment, trauma, and identity evolve across the lifespan.
To follow Nirit's work, check out her website at niritgordonphd.com and her training offerings at touchstoneinstitute.org

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What happens when therapy stops being about techniques — and starts becoming about you?
In this deeply reflective episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen are joined by therapist and trainer Jessica Downs for an intimate conversation exploring the inner life of therapists, professional identity, and the personal work that inevitably emerges beneath clinical practice.
Together, they explore the hidden motivations that draw people into helping professions, the illusion of the “next training” as a solution to therapeutic stuckness, and the moment many therapists encounter when professional development turns into personal reckoning.
This episode moves beyond theory into experience, as Jessica guides a live experiential exercise inviting listeners to connect with younger parts of themselves — demonstrating how EMDR principles, ego state work, and imagination can foster integration and self-compassion.
Themes explored include:
Why therapists often chase new modalities or trainings
The relationship between burnout and unresolved inner dynamics
Countertransference and the therapist’s personal history
Ego states and parts work through an EMDR lens
The role of suffering in human experience
Individuation, identity, and professional evolution
Healing as wholeness rather than symptom elimination
This conversation is slower, more inward, and intentionally reflective — an invitation to pause, notice, and reconnect with the parts of yourself that brought you into this work in the first place.
In This Episode, We Discuss
The unconscious reasons therapists become therapists
When “helping people” isn’t the whole story
Capitalism, continuing education culture, and therapist insecurity
Internal imagery and symbolic work in healing
Parenting, therapy, and mirrors of the self
Jessica’s “spotlighting” ego state exercise (follow along included)
The La Loba myth and reclaiming lost parts of self

About Our Guest — Jessica Downs
Jessica Downs is a trauma therapist, EMDR clinician, and co-founder of Iris Training Collective. Her work integrates EMDR, ego state approaches, symbolism, and depth psychology to help therapists reconnect with authenticity and wholeness in both personal and professional development.
Resources & Links
Iris Training Collective
Live Well Counseling Center (Grand Junction, CO)
Notice That Podcast
Beyond Healing trainings and consultation opportunities

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What if resilience isn’t about “bouncing back,” but about the brain’s ongoing ability to adapt—moment by moment, across a lifetime?
In this episode of Notice That, Bridger and Jen are joined by Laurel O’Neal Thornton, EMDR clinician, consultant, and educator, for a rich conversation on the neuroscience of resilience and what it actually looks like in EMDR therapy.
Drawing from neuroscience, EMDR, and years of clinical experience, Laurel reframes resilience as an innate human capacity—one that exists even in the presence of trauma, depression, neurodivergence, and chronic stress. Together, we explore how shame disrupts resilience, why meaning-making matters, and how EMDR can foster regulation, integration, and adaptability without chasing perfection or symptom elimination.
This episode is especially resonant for clinicians working with complex trauma, neurodivergent clients, chronic depression, or anyone feeling stuck in rigid models of “healing.”
✨ In This Episode, We Explore:
Why resilience is adaptation, not toughness or “bouncing back”
How EMDR naturally supports resilience through plasticity, regulation, and integration
The role of shame as a major disruptor of innate resilience
Why healing doesn’t mean never being triggered again
How meaning, purpose, and relational connection show up in resilience research
Working creatively within the EMDR protocol—especially Phase 2 and Phase 8
Supporting neurodivergent and highly intelligent clients in EMDR
Why spontaneity, play, and pattern-breaking matter in therapy
What it really means to “trust the brain” in EMDR

🧩 Key Takeaways for Clinicians
Resilience exists before healing—and therapy helps clients reconnect to it
EMDR doesn’t fix broken brains; it helps glitching systems reintegrate
Decreasing shame may be one of the most powerful therapeutic interventions
Creativity and flexibility are not deviations from EMDR—they’re part of its design
Healing is about faster recognition, quicker recovery, and greater self-understanding

👩‍🏫 About Our Guest
Laurel O’Neal Thornton is an EMDR clinician, consultant, educator, and practice owner who specializes in the neuroscience of trauma, resilience, and neurodivergence. She trains and consults clinicians internationally and is passionate about helping therapists integrate neuroscience in ways that are practical, humane, and deeply respectful of the client’s nervous system.
Learn more about Laurel’s work at Whole Brain Solutions
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