Teaching Literacy Podcast

In Episode 77 of the Teaching Literacy Podcast, guest host Dr. Laura Tortorelli sits down with Dr. Jake Downs to unpack a recent grade 3 intervention study published in Reading Research Quarterly with co-authors Freddy Hiebert, Kristin Conradi Smith, and Katie Martz. Together, they explore the demands of reading long, complex words and a straightforward blending routine for supporting multisyllabic word reading. They also discuss the need for supporting accuracy and automaticity in complex text and how to use the multisyllabic blending strategy with the repeated reading Read Like Us protocol. Plenty of takeaways for any upper elementary teacher, reading coach, or literacy support professional.

Read the article here! No paywall!
Downs, J., Hiebert, E., Conradi Smith, K., & Martz, K. (2026). Promoting reading accuracy and fluency outcomes with complex texts: A Grade 3 intervention comparison. Reading Research Quarterly. Advance online publication. https://doi.org/10.1002/rrq.70117

Episode Outline:
0:00 Intro — Guest host Laura Tortorelli introduces the episode
1:44 Study overview — Jake Downs et al. study comparing simplified vs. complex texts in Reading Research Quarterly
4:24 Welcome, Jake — Jake joins the conversation
4:48 Complex text effects — Accuracy, fluency, and comprehension decrease with harder text
3:54 Why accuracy matters — Accuracy as the “floor of good reading”
4:58 Why harder texts? — Vocabulary density, idea sophistication, word automaticity
7:24 Teachers’ quandary — Grade-level texts cause accuracy and fluency to plummet
8:00 What can we do? — Scaffold rather than water down text
9:32 RLU 1.0 vs. new study — Adding long word blending to improve accuracy
10:09 Multisyllabic approaches — Syllable types vs. morphology; limitations of each
12:48 Hybrid peel-off approach — Combining morphology with syllabication
15:58 Curricular design — 80/20 split: text reading vs. word blending
17:36 Text design vs. scope & sequence — Pull words from strong texts, not vice versa
21:56 Texts in upper grades — Building vocabulary, knowledge, and comprehension
22:38 Word repetition — ~25 encounters per target word through repeated readings
24:57 A day in Read Like Us — Step-by-step blending routine and repeated reading protocol
28:48 Study parameters — 60 sessions, 12 topics, 5 texts each from ReadWorks.org
29:38 Comparison condition — A validated decoding intervention, not a weak control
31:36 Key differences — Text complexity, word complexity, and word-text alignment
34:04 Findings: Accuracy — RLU students 2.79x more likely to reach benchmark
35:49 Findings: Fluency — Comparable growth; no cost from harder texts
37:33 Vocabulary hypothesis — Likely benefits from text volume and topic diversity
37:57 Who benefits? — Students at ~95%+ accuracy; not below 90%
40:14 Advice for teachers — Scaffolding is essential; payoff is compound interest
43:00 Selecting words — Pick hard, text-meaningful words; 3 words, 5–7 minutes
45:41 Challenging deficit views — Build on what students can do; scaffold the edge
48:08 What’s Jake optimistic about — Public-facing research and free resources
49:38 Laura’s take: Rethinking ZPD — Scaffolding should match text challenge, not avoid it

In this episode of the Teaching Literacy Podcast, host Jake Downs sits down with Dr. Laura Tortorelli and Dr. John Strong to unpack how vocabulary and advanced decoding interact to help upper elementary students navigate complex academic texts. Discussing their recent study on multisyllabic decoding achievement, the researchers explain why treating vocabulary and word recognition as isolated instructional buckets is a critical mistake. They dive into the mechanics of the fourth-grade slump and Linnea Ehri’s consolidated alphabetic phase, sharing striking findings like why nearly 100% of struggling readers can easily decode compound words like mushroom while only 5% can read bugle—revealing how a word’s “age of acquisition” and presence in a child’s oral vocabulary directly dictates their reading accuracy. Listeners will walk away with a practical understanding of the “decoding threshold” and concrete, flexible classroom strategies from the Read Stop Write intervention to help students move past rigid syllabication rules and seamlessly integrate word meaning with multisyllabic decoding.

Link to ReadStopWrite: https://www.readstopwrite.com/ (book coming in 2027!!)

00:00 Multisyllabic Reading Challenge
01:33 Meet the Researchers
03:40 Why Readers Hit a Wall
08:46 Decoding Threshold Explained
10:50 Stop Over-Syllabicating
13:38 Morphology in Action
17:02 Vocabulary and Decoding Unite
23:27 Inside the Study Design
26:41 Multisyllabic Inventory Breakdown
30:20 Surprising Student Performance
33:27 Compound Words Mastery
33:59 Tricky Syllable Patterns
35:11 Nonsense Words Accuracy
36:51 Vocabulary vs Morphology
39:14 Why Bugle Is Hard
43:09 Age of Acquisition Effect
45:20 Read Stop Write Strategies
50:44 Choosing High Impact Words
55:51 Interpreting Nonsense Tests
59:01 Literacy Optimisms
01:02:16 Jake’s Take

Reference:
Tortorelli, L. S., Strong, J. Z., & Anderson, B. E. (2024). Multisyllabic decoding achievement and relation to vocabulary at the end of elementary school. Journal of Experimental Child Psychology, 246, 106018. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jecp.2024.106018

In this episode, Jake sits down with Dr. Amanda Shimizu to discuss her research paper, A Multimodal Content Analysis of Popular Early Childhood Stories and Read-Alouds on YouTube, co-authored with Dr. Margaret Quinn. Together they analyzed the 50 most popular preschool read-aloud videos on YouTube over a one-year period, examining both video design and instructional quality.

Reference:

Shimizu, A. Y., & Quinn, M. F. (2026). A multimodal content analysis of popular early childhood stories and read-alouds on YouTube. Journal of Early Childhood Literacy, 14687984261442422. https://doi.org/10.1177/14687984261442422

List of 50 analyzed YouTube videos:

TitleCreator/ChannelLinkNo, DavidToadstools and Fairydusthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFcMDiDZbwsThis is My Happy FaceSuper simple storieshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXMMING5_h4Inside Out 2Art in minuteshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p4nVK4Ua5kMy No, No, No DayStorytime with ryan & craighttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-gWhnvdgQThe Most Serious FartStory Time at Awnie’s Househttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoKTjdAJFxoThere Was an Old Lady Who Swallowed a WormMrs. K’s Bookworm adventureshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmU8RSguPLIDon’t Let the Pigeon Eat ChocolateMommy and Sam Storytime anytimehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwxUgkMIc74I Am Not AngryReading Rockethttps://youtube.com/watch?v=_QOw52OzJukThe GruffaloReading ishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhhUE1qe3GASwim SchoolBluey Official Channelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtU1CHprtu8Who Pooped on MeStory Time at Awnie’s Househttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txSsFiVA0tYIf You Think There’s Nothing To DoLittle Cozy Nookhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taZIYvYOqcUSo Much SlimeKid Time Story Timehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIkgQFhqIgIEat Your PeasGigi’s Magic Mailbox[link unavailable]Be Respectful and ListenSleeptime Music and storieshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG3arGjg0HkThe BeachBluey Official Channelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKzmUpkTvS0Hey, That’s My MonsterKid Time Story Timehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc71w9J86ygGreen Eggs and HamDr. Seusshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1Kksn76jZkToo Much GlueKid Time Story Timehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_QF0VGakx8What If You Had Animal Teeth?Miss B LIVE!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_QF0VGakx8How to Give your Cat a BathBri Readshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86bjHWalRlAFood FightStoryTime PlayTimehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTIVuT_g204The Cat in the HatDr. Seusshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Irl_oWD6MCocomelon JJ and Friends Box of BooksHoots & Taleshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLFUo_l5d0INaughty Tim SprocketToadstool and Fairy Dusthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCwJcH9h1BQThe Good, The Bad, and The SpookyStoryTime at Awnie’s Househttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JI5HB3Pg9wDinos Love DonutsStoryTime at Awnie’s Househttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TEBa0EiNg8Don’t let the Pigeon Eat Your Ice CreamMommy & sam Storytime Anytimehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4R7PlM4lUvoI Am Martin Luther KingStorytime with Ryan & Craighttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5WyidVQLL8The Wrong BookToadstools and Fairy Dusthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfwqZNlFsfkBroken Crayons Still ColorReading Robinsonshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJNJjMcf6gI&t=5sThe Snail and the WhaleReading ishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfAsZdCtHOcPete the Cat Screams for Ice CreamPink Thumb Learning Channelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdzB3rxiyVEFlat CatKidTimeStoryTimehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1s-N2b9QgIPete the Cat Falling for Autumn5 Minutes with Uncle Benhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuHjjHDB1eMLlama Llama Misses MamaReading ishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr9j0UjLc0E&t=181sBlue Betsy: Little Blue CowLittle Moonbeamhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=em2wnQ8qd0I&t=179sThe Way I FeelReading ishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1mxBUXZdqY&t=13sThere Was A Cold Lady Who Swallowed Some SnowStoryTime at Awnie’s Househttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buGDbGjcP-4There Was an Old Lady Who Swallowed a BatSToryTime at Awnie’s Househttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvMVTjHxiyEThe Very impatient CaterpillarStoryTime at Awnie’s Househttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT-F-dxAUQETootHoots and Taleshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fAS_TdIi6ETooth5 Minutes with Uncle Ben [link unavailable]This Book is a MistakeToadstools and Fairy Dusthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04I4u-QyGloThe Great Turkey RaceRead Aloud with Mr. Paulhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjxJ7JRmN-gThe HiccupotamusVookshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EouPRqmomk0The Grouchy LadybugMoving Storieshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x31rwpCMlMDon’t Trust CatsFat Cat Bookshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T817NASjDoMy New Friend is So Fun!Storytime Read Aloudshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LLsAsXHYZw&t=15sMs. SBriReadshttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/IXlbD0Jbs-U

Discussion Overview
3:37 — YouTube stats & young children’s screen time
5:28 — Promises & perils of YouTube as an educational platform
7:01 — The 50 most popular channels & creator types
11:04 — What makes a high-quality read-aloud?
13:22 — Video design features (music, animations, props)
17:35 — The “disembodied reader” problem
23:02 — Instructional features: before, during & after reading
28:40 — The 2×2 matrix: production vs. instructional quality
38:10 — Recommendations for YouTube creators
40:58 — Follow-up research coming
43:51 — Jake’s Take

In this episode I sit down with the SRI Education research team—Dr. Dan Reynolds, Dr. Anna Jennerjohn, and Dr. Sara Rutherford-Quach—to unpack their learning brief, Beyond the Surface.

This episode explores the gap between using high-quality instructional materials (HQIM) and achieving deep, robust reading comprehension.

Read the Brief Here: https://www.sri.com/publication/education-learning-pubs/beyond-the-surface-leveraging-high-quality-instructional-materials-for-robust-reading-comprehension/

Quick Summary:

Actionable advice for coaches and school leaders to build systems that support genuine meaning-making in the classroom.

The Study: Analyzed 111 comprehension lessons across districts with mature HQIM implementation and surveyed 500+ teachers.

The Central Finding: While HQIM was consistently used, 64% of lessons focused only on surface-level objectives (completing tasks) rather than robust comprehension (building a mental model).

Episode Highlights:

Defining the crucial distinction between Surface and Robust comprehension.

Introducing the 6 high-leverage instructional practices that move the needle toward deep understanding.

Timestamps
[0:00] – Teaser: Surface vs. Robust Comprehension

[0:16] – Introduction & episode overview; Jake introduces the HQIM landscape

[1:29] – Introducing the guests and their learning brief: Beyond the Surface

[2:43] – What is HQIM and why has the term taken off so quickly?

[4:46] – Background on the study: Schusterman Family Philanthropies partnership and why SRI undertook this observational research

[7:14] – Why studying mature implementation matters — districts where HQIM had been in place for several years

[9:34] – Defining surface-level comprehension vs. robust comprehension

[20:58] – How the data was collected: 111 classroom observations, 500+ teacher surveys, 100+ interviews, 62 PLCs observed

[25:10] – Finding #1: Teachers were using their HQIM consistently (72–89% daily or almost daily)

[21:26] – Finding #2: High floor established — 98% of lessons had a comprehension purpose; but 64% of lessons set only surface-level goals

[26:06] – The “voltage drop”: how robust lessons erode

[29:57] – The six high-leverage practices for robust comprehension:

[30:11] Practice 1: Engaging students in text-specific analysis
[33:29] Practice 2: Activating and leveraging prior knowledge
[36:10] Practice 3: Explaining and modeling meaning-making
[38:48] Practice 4: Providing instructional feedback
[40:36] Practice 5: Providing opportunities for text-based reasoning
[41:59] Practice 6: Setting up peer learning opportunities
[44:25] – What surface-level instruction looks like in practice

[47:37] – It’s not a checklist: how the six practices can serve surface OR robust ends

[48:56] – Three action steps for coaches and school leaders:
[56:07] – Walkthrough tools and their limitations: why you can’t see robust comprehension in a 5-minute walkthrough

[1:00:28] – Jake’s curveball: How do standards interact with comprehension instruction? (The PLC/Norse mythology example)

[1:06:05] – Student engagement in robust vs. surface lessons — the House on Mango Street discussion example

[1:04:12] – What’s next: upcoming SRI briefs on foundational skills, multilingual learners, and knowledge-building

[1:10:17] – Optimism for the future of literacy: teachers hungry for the “how,” and a push toward more honest comprehension assessment

[1:14:25] – Jake’s Take: Reflections on HQIM as an “instructional floor,” why all three gears must turn (content knowledge, pedagogical knowledge, curriculum knowledge), and a simple habit for keeping comprehension instruction tethered to meaning-making

[1:30:30] – Closing

This is a rebroadcast of Episode 245 from the Melissa and Lori Love Literacy Podcast – you can check out that episode here: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/read-like-us-building-fluency-through-repeated-reading/id1463219123?i=1000748503901

Make sure to check out the Literacy.io training on the Kat Framework for Comprehension this June!
-June 24-25 in East Lansing Michigan
-Individual registration available at: https://tamu.estore.flywire.com/products/cusp—the-reading-leagueliteracy10-participant-registration–412940
-Group registration available at: https://tamu.estore.flywire.com/products/cusp—the-reading-leagueliteracy10-group-participant-registration–412945
-More information available at literacy.io/contact

Show Notes
2:30 – What is Read Like Us?

Overview of the five-step repeated reading protocol

How it supports accuracy, automaticity, and prosody

4:10 – The Five Reads Explained

Listening passage preview

Echo reading

Choral reading

Partner reading

Performance/independent reading

6:00 – Implementation in Classrooms

Can it work in whole group settings?

Small group intervention applications

Working with paraprofessionals and volunteers

10:00 – Maximizing Reading Time

Why 90% of intervention time should be actual reading

The workout approach to building fluency

Ensuring students are actually reading (not just holding books)

12:53 – How Read Like Us Differs from Traditional Approaches

More than just “read three times and check for speed”

Building all three components of fluency simultaneously

The role of modeling and scaffolding

15:00 – Gradual Release of Responsibility

Transferring task responsibility to students

Why rate/speed wasn’t emphasized in coaching

Automaticity as the outcome, not the input

18:00 – Prosody and Comprehension

Expression as an indicator of understanding

Using the Rasinski multidimensional fluency rubric

Rotating focus areas: expression, phrasing, smoothness, pace

20:00 – Study Results

Fourth grade students: 16.5 WPM growth in 50 days

Effect size of 0.9

Improvements in accuracy, vocabulary, and comprehension measures

22:30 – Potential Comprehension Enhancement

Adding a 10-word takeaway or gist statement

Keeping it “fluency heavy, comprehension light”

Future iterations of the protocol

25:30 – The Stacking Protocol Approach

Learning from dissertation chair Dr. Kit Moore

Combining multiple evidence-based practices

Weaving the reading rope together

27:30 – Cost and Accessibility

Read Like Us is free to implement

Comparison with commercial tier-two interventions

Open access article available

28:48 – Text Selection Philosophy

The month-long process of curating 50 texts

Using challenging and engaging content (100-200 words)

Types included: giggle poetry, science facts, short stories with twists, weird state laws

30:30 – The “Challenging Text” Debate

Using texts above grade level with proper scaffolding

Addressing the 1960s neurological impress research

Why modern research supports stretching students

33:17 – Texts Students Actually Want to Read

Students asking to take intervention texts home

Incorporating core reading program texts for continuity

Balance between practical and engaging content

36:00 – Lexile Levels and Text Complexity

Many texts in 6th-8th grade Lexile range for 3rd-4th graders

Testing the hypothesis: Can struggling readers succeed in harder texts?

Being “level agnostic” in text selection

39:00 – Rethinking Leveled Texts

Limitations of the Lexile formula

Starting with engaging content, not filter levels

The scaffolding makes the difference, not the exact level

42:00 – Student Motivation and Text Choice

Chase’s son reading adult-level joke books in first grade

The power of “want to” over prescribed levels

Teacher control vs. student self-selection

43:00 – Repeated Reading vs. Wide Reading

Defining both approaches

Why they shouldn’t be pitted against each other

Read Like Us = repeated reading across wide array of texts

46:30 – Wide Reading and Teacher Control

Students won’t achieve wide reading through self-selection alone

The teacher’s role in exposing students to diverse genres

Balancing instruction with student choice

48:00 – Benefits of Wide Reading

Exposure to different language patterns across genres

Informational vs. narrative text structures

Building terrain navigation skills with various text types

49:00 – Getting Started with Read Like Us

Start with tomorrow’s text

Find the 200-300 word section with the most “oomph”

Use what you already have in your classroom

50:21 – Closing

Where to find the protocol and resources

Final thoughts and wrap-up