AI can now write code faster than any human alive, and most of the time it's more than good enough. That's the magic powering the entire vibe coding wave. But there's a category of software where "most of the time" just doesn't cut it: the code running a fighter jet, a power grid, an autonomous vehicle, a piece of medical hardware. When that code is wrong, the consequences aren't a bug. They're a recall, an accident, a national security incident.
In this episode of Talking AI, Matt Paige sits down with Ryan Aytay, the former CEO of Tableau and now President and COO of CodeMetal, which just raised $125 million to close that gap. Ryan explains what he calls "the last mile" for mission-critical industries: the verification, validation, and provability layer that sits between AI-generated code and the systems where failure is catastrophic.
The conversation covers why 99% correct is still failure in defense and autonomous systems, how CodeMetal translated a million lines of legacy C++ to Rust in weeks (like rewiring a city without the power going out), and why the real problem isn't code generation, it's behavioral assurance at scale. Ryan also shares how he's using AI to run a sub-100-person startup, why the biggest risk for any company right now is doing nothing, and what an operator who lived through 19 years of per-seat SaaS at Salesforce thinks about outcomes-based pricing in the age of AI.
In this episode, you'll hear about:
Why every AI coding tool says "almost, but not quite" when asked about production-ready guarantees. The difference between code generation and behavioral assurance at scale. How CodeMetal translates legacy C++ to Rust with provable correctness in weeks, not years. The concept of V&V (verification and validation) and why it's the missing layer in AI code gen. Real use cases in defense, autonomous vehicles, and simulation environments. Why hardware in the loop matters as much as human in the loop. How a sub-100-person company uses AI across M&A, recruiting, marketing, and operations. Ryan's take on token economics, outcomes-based pricing, and the SaaS evolution. Why the biggest risk is inaction, not AI errors. What attracted Ryan to CodeMetal after 19 years at Salesforce and leading Tableau.
Key Moments
02:47 — From Tableau fanboy to the trust gap in AI
03:52 — Why Ryan left Salesforce/Tableau for CodeMetal
05:55 — "Is it safe for the things I depend on every day?"
06:45 — 99% correct is still failure for mission-critical systems
08:20 — The sycophantic nature of AI: "Heck yeah, I can do that"
09:22 — It's not a coding problem, it's a behavioral problem at scale
11:22 — Human in the loop isn't enough: hardware in the loop
14:30 — What is fuzzing? Formal methods explained in plain English
16:02 — How a sub-100-person company leverages AI across every function
18:19 — The Shopify mandate: using AI reflexively
21:33 — Rewiring the city without the power going out: the million-line translation
24:38 — Defense use cases: drones, autonomous vehicles, and simulation
26:28 — "Prove is even a stronger word than guarantee"
28:32 — Accountability and the coming wave of AI insurance
32:54 — Token usage, the Uber CTO's blown budget, and outcomes-based pricing
36:26 — SaaS isn't dead, it's evolving: Ryan's Salesforce/Tableau perspective
40:08 — The biggest risk is doing nothing
42:07 — Where to find CodeMetal (and they're hiring)
Key Links
CodeMetal
Connect with Ryan on LinkedIn
Mentioned in this episode:
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