Lawyerist Podcast

Most law firms are designed for lawyers, not clients. And clients feel it. In episode 609 of the Lawyerist Podcast, Stephanie Everett sits down with Laura Hartnett to explore how design thinking can transform the way legal services are delivered. 

Laura breaks down why clients often feel confused, anxious, or left in the dark, even when lawyers are doing excellent work. She shares how small changes, like rethinking communication, mapping the client journey, and understanding what happens after you deliver advice, can dramatically improve both client satisfaction and firm efficiency. 

Together, they share practical ways to rethink your processes, clarify your communication, and deliver work clients can actually understand and use. If you want to build a law firm that feels clearer, more human, and easier to work with, this episode offers a smarter approach to designing your practice. 

Listen to our previous episodes on Client Experience & Designing Better Legal Services. 

#606: Breaking the Copycat Cycle: Building a Law Firm with Personality, with Patrick Patino Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#600: Designing a Law Firm You Actually Want to Run, with Stephanie Everett Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#597: What Lawyers Get Wrong About Teaching Clients and Teams, with Danielle Hall Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#462: Designing an Empathetic Client Experience, with Kirk Simoneau Apple | Spotify | LTN 

 

Links from the episode: 

https://laurahartnett.com/ 

https://lawyerist.com/turn-ai-into-your-small-firms-advantage/ 

 

Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X! 

If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you. 

 Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com. 

 

Chapters / Timestamps: 

00:00 – Introduction 

04:20 – Meet Laura Hartnett 

05:00 – What “Design Thinking” Actually Means 

06:05 – Why Client Experience Starts with Emotion 

07:45 – Stop Inheriting Your Law Firm 

08:40 – Where to Start: Understanding Your Client 

10:20 – Mapping the Client Journey 

12:15 – The Hidden Friction in Law Firm Processes 

14:30 – Why Clients Don’t Understand Your Work 

16:25 – Designing Deliverables Clients Can Use 

18:20 – Lessons from Other Industries 

19:05 – AI, Client Expectations & New Behaviors 

21:40 – Teaching Clients When to Call You 

23:00 – Redesigning Legal Services for the Future 

25:00 – Staying Curious About AI & Change 

27:00 – Closing Thoughts

In episode 608 of the Lawyerist Podcast, Stephanie Everett talks with former Big Law business development professional Megan Senese about the human side of legal marketing and why the most effective client development strategies often look less like selling and more like genuine connection. 

For many lawyers, business development feels awkward, performative, and disconnected from the real work of practicing law. Megan challenges that assumption by showing how meaningful relationships, not sales tactics, are what actually drive sustainable growth. 

They explore why traditional networking advice fails so many lawyers, how small thoughtful gestures can build stronger professional relationships, and why authenticity matters more than ever in a crowded legal marketplace. Megan also shares practical ideas for nurturing relationships, staying top of mind without being transactional, and approaching business development in a way that feels natural rather than forced. 

If the idea of “doing marketing” makes you cringe, this episode offers a more sustainable approach to building relationships, trust, and ultimately a thriving legal practice. 

Listen to our previous episodes on Law Firm Marketing & Differentiation. 

#606: Breaking the Copycat Cycle: Building a Law Firm with Personality, with Patrick Patino Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#580: Smarter Law Firm Marketing: AI Tools That Actually Work, with FirmPilot Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#550: Beyond Content: How AI is Changing Law Firm Marketing, with Gyi Tsakalakis and Conrad Saam Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#549: A Journey into Video Marketing, with Temi Siyanbade Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#515: Simple Marketing Hacks Lawyers Swear By, with Gyi Tsakalakis Apple | Spotify | LTN

 

Links from the episode:

https://stage.guide  

 

Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X! 

If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you. 

Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com. 

 

Chapters / Timestamps: 

00:00 – Introduction 

02:05 – Why Thoughtful Gestures Strengthen Professional Relationships 

05:10 – Meet Megan Senese 

06:25 – Why Business Development Feels So Hard for Lawyers 

07:10 – How to Make Networking Feel Natural 

09:20 – Why Copying Other Firms’ Marketing Doesn’t Work 

10:15 – Turning Personal Interests into Business Development 

12:30 – Simple Ways to Nurture Professional Relationships 

14:00 – Staying Top of Mind Without Being Salesy 

15:10 – How Long It Actually Takes to Build Client Relationships 

16:05 – How to Ask for Business Without Feeling Awkward 

18:05 – Why Listening Creates Better Pitch Opportunities 

20:00 – Staying Curious About New Tools and Technology 

23:00 – Closing Thoughts

AI is more than just another tool for lawyers. It may fundamentally change how law firms make money. In episode #607 of the Lawyerist Podcast, Stephanie Everett talks with legal industry analyst Jordan Furlong about the shifting economics of law practice and what happens as AI begins doing work lawyers once billed for. 

Jordan explains why the traditional law firm model built on billable hours and human effort is starting to break down as legal workflows become automated. Together, they explore how AI may shift lawyers away from producing legal work and toward supervising systems, validating outcomes, and delivering the one thing machines cannot easily replicate: judgment under uncertainty. 

The future of law practice may depend less on expertise and more on qualities machines struggle to replicate such as judgment, character, and the ability to guide clients through uncertainty. The conversation also explores why hourly billing may no longer make sense in an AI-driven world, how firms can rethink pricing around outcomes and client experience, and why smaller firms may adapt more quickly. 

If the billable hour fades and AI begins handling the routine “widgets” of legal work, the real question becomes what a lawyer’s value is now, and how firms should prepare for what comes next. 

Listen to our previous episodes on Artificial Intelligence and the Future of Legal Practice. 

#601 – Beyond Chatbots: Using Agentic AI in Law Firm Intake, with Matt Spiegel Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#590 – Innovating Without Overwhelm: Practical AI Tips for Lawyers, with Graydon Trusler Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#587 – Future-Proofing Your Firm in the Age of AI, with Jack Newton Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#577 – Rethinking Law Firm Growth in the Age of AI, with Sam Harden Apple | Spotify | LTN  

Links from the episode: 

https://jordanfurlong.substack.com. 

 

Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X! 

If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you.  

Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com. 

 

Chapters / Timestamps:  

00:00 – Introduction 

01:45 – Why Everyone Is Talking About AI in Law 

04:20 – Meet Jordan Furlong 

06:40 – The Real Disruption AI Brings to Law Firms 

09:30 – The Economics Behind the Billable Hour 

12:50 – What Happens When Software Does the Work 

16:05 – The Shift from Expertise to Judgment 

19:20 – What Lawyers Still Do Better Than AI 

22:40 – Client Value in an AI-Driven Profession 

26:00 – Why Smaller Firms May Have an Advantage 

29:10 – What This Means for New Lawyers 

32:45 – Preparing for the Next Version of Law Practice 

36:10 – Closing Thoughts

Standing out in a crowded legal market requires more than competence. It requires intentional client experience. In episode 606 of the Lawyerist Podcast, Zack Glaser talks with Patrick Patino about redefining professionalism and building a law firm people actually want to work with. 

Patrick shares how he walked away from a successful bankruptcy practice to experiment with a more human-centered model focused on connection, accessibility, and community. They examine why most firms look and feel the same, how experience shapes client loyalty, and why fear-based marketing quietly undermines trust. 

If you are questioning the traditional law firm playbook, this episode offers concrete ways to attract better clients, clarify your positioning, and design a firm that fits both your values and your market. 

Links from the episode:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-newfangled-lawyer/id1699645225

Listen to our previous episodes on Client Experience & Law Firm Differentiation. 

#603 – Turn Expertise into Clients: Building Authority That AI Recognizes, with Karin Conroy Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#600 – Designing a Law Firm You Actually Want to Run, with Stephanie Everett Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#575 – From Overwhelmed Lawyer to Strategic Law Firm Owner, with Chad Fox Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#559 – The Imitation Trap: Lessons from 15 Years of Top Law Firm Websites, with Conroy Creative Counsel Apple | Spotify | LTN

Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X! 

If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you. 

Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com. 

 

Chapters / Timestamps:  

00:00 – Introduction 

01:15 – Discipline Is Boring Until Results Show Up 

07:05 – Meet Patrick Patino 

09:30 – Rethinking Professionalism 

11:15 – High Five Legal and the Bankruptcy Experiment 

13:30 – Fear Based Marketing vs. Levity 

16:10 – Meeting Clients Where They Are 

18:45 – Community Over Sales Pitches 

20:50 – The Copycat Law Firm Problem 

23:30 – Experience Is the Differentiator 

26:05 – The Crumbl Cookie Model of Law 

28:40 – Scaling Culture with the Pod Model 

31:15 – Talking With Clients, Not At Them 

34:00 – Collaboration Over Control 

36:20 – Define Your Ideal Client for Real 

38:45 – Solo and Small Firm Advantage 

41:20 – What It Means to Be Newfangled

In episode 604 of Lawyerist Podcast, Stephanie Everett sits down with Andy Hays to explore the shift from solo practitioner to true business owner. After nearly two decades of firm ownership, Andy shares why he recently rebranded to remove his personal name from the firm, a strategic move designed to reduce dependency on him and strengthen the firm’s future. 

They discuss delegation, hiring before you feel fully ready, automating repetitive processes, and setting clear expectations for team performance. The conversation also dives into accountability, leadership growth, and how small operational improvements compound over time. 

If you are ready to move beyond founder dependence and build a firm designed for scalability, resilience, and long-term value, this episode offers practical frameworks and real-world insight to help you get there. 

Listen to our previous episodes on Scaling & Building a Sellable Firm. 

#306: Getting to Know & Love Your Numbers, with Bernadette Harris Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#583: From Survival to Strategy: Scaling Your Law Firm Finances, with Bernadette Harris Apple | Spotify | LTN 

#588: Practice Smarter, Not Harder: 411 Tips for Modern Lawyers, with Jordan Couch Apple | Spotify | LTN 

Have thoughts about today’s episode? Join the conversation on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, and X! 

 

If today's podcast resonates with you and you haven't read The Small Firm Roadmap Revisited yet, get the first chapter right now for free! Looking for help beyond the book? See if our coaching community is right for you. 

 

Access more resources from Lawyerist at lawyerist.com. 

 

Chapters / Timestamps:  

00:00 – Introduction 

03:50 – Standards, KPIs & Hard Conversations 

07:30 – Meet Andy 

08:45 – Lessons from 18 Years in Practice 

10:15 – Removing Your Name from the Firm 

12:45 – Building a Firm You Can Sell 

15:30 – Automation & Low Hanging Fruit 

17:00 – Accountability & Team Meetings 

19:25 – The “I’ll Just Do It Myself” Trap 

21:15 – Hiring Strategically 

23:30 – Expanding the Physical Office 

25:40 – Closing Thoughts