Summary
Phillip Di Bella built one of Australia's most successful coffee businesses, and sold it for $47 million. In this episode, we find what it actually felt like the day after he sold, how his definition of success has changed over the years, and what the next generation needs to hear about work and leadership.
This isn't just a story about building and selling a business, it's about what success really costs, and what's actually worth chasing.
Guest
Phillip Di Bella is an Australian entrepreneur and founder of Di Bella Coffee and The Coffee Commune. He is also a mentor, speaker and advocate for innovation and collaboration in the hospitality industry.
Overview
Phillip Di Bella is the founder of Di Bella Coffee, which he launched in Brisbane in 2002 with just $5,000 and scaled into one of Australia's largest specialty coffee brands. After selling the business for $47 million, Phillip could have stepped away. Instead, he doubled down on building community, mentoring entrepreneurs, and reshaping what success looks like.
In this episode of Really Good Conversations, Phillip shares the emotional impact of selling a business with your name on it, the cost of relentless growth, and how he lost 80kg to take his life back after burnout.
He challenges the hype around startup exits, investment culture, and the "get rich quick" narrative flooding social media.
You'll hear his views on leadership, resilience, and what today's business owners need to understand about patience, failure, and building something that lasts.
Key takeaways
What it really felt like to sell a business for $47 million and why Phillip asked for the cheque, not a bank transfer
The personal cost of growth: burnout, weight gain, and what he changed after the exit
Phillip's definition of success today and why it has nothing to do with status or stuff
Why the next generation is being sold the wrong version of ambition
Startup myths, VC hype, and what founders should focus on before chasing investment
The importance of meaningful conversations, with others, and with yourself
The one piece of advice that changed the direction of Phillip's life
For more information:
The Coffee Commune https://www.coffeecommune.com.au/
Private Coffee Collection https://privatecollection.coffee/
Transcript
Welcome to the Really Good Conversations podcast. Today I am joined by Phillip Di Bella, entrepreneur, mentor, and one of the most recognised names in Australian coffee. He started Di Bella Coffee in 2002 with just $5,000 and built it into Australia's largest specialty coffee brand, later selling it for $47 million. He's done what many dream of, but instead of stepping away, he stayed active, launching the Coffee Commune and mentoring the next generation.
In this episode, we unpack what really drives him and what future game changers need to hear.
Welcome to the podcast, Phillip!
Phillip (01:09)
Thanks for having me.
Amy (01:27)
Thank you so much for giving us your time today, because I'm really excited about this conversation. And as I've mentioned to you offline is, you know, to tap into a little bit of behind the scenes, a bit more of your brain and what makes you tick from the journey that you have been on. Because ultimately you have done something that, you know, many people are striving to do in business, launch a product, build a business, sell it, sell it for millions and sail off into the sunset on a mega yacht, never needing to work again.
Phillip (01:43)
If only.
Amy (01:53)
And you haven't exactly done the latter part, but what I wanted to tap into, because I think people, whether they do start something with that end in mind and if it is the selling or whatever.
But if you could take us back to 2014 for just a moment when you did sell the business, how did that actually feel when that went through, that sale, for you? What was it almost like, the next day, to realise that is something you've exited?
Phillip (02:09)
It's a sign of relief, it really is. I think it's a combination of emotions. You know, a bit of anxiety kicks in, the unknown territory, a bit of disappointment, you know, you're handing over the keys to something that you've built from scratch. But ultimately, when you look at it and you go, hey, I've been able to build something quite remarkable, I've been able to look after people along the way. I've been able to, obviously now I can set my family up, which was very important with me being, my background being Italian, to set my kids up and take some money off the table because since 2002 right till you sell, you've got an amount of risk. You've got money on the line, you've got debts, you've got all sorts of stuff. So relief is probably, if you said sum it up in one word, relief.
Business is relentless. It's even more relentless today than what it was in 2014, and we can sure unpack that. But because business is relentless when you're an owner and people say, what hours do you work? Well, you never stop working when you own a business. And it doesn't matter whether it's a micro business or a medium business or a small business or a large business, an owner of a business never stops working. The brain's always ticking and it is relentless. I'll keep saying that word. And so in summary, the one word that sums it all up when you finally exit and you know, and I, they wanted to direct debit the money into my account. And I said, no, I want the traditional checks. So I made them present checks and I took a photo of them on the table and you know, it was a bit of old school. The first thing that came to mind was relief. Relief because I was able to set my family up, set myself up and it was a validation of, you know, taking a punt, going out into a challenging world of coffee in 2002 with 2000 competitors, several of them billion dollar companies, several hundred million dollar companies, us being a startup with 5000k. Then growing to be Australia's largest specialty coffee company, which means, you know, it's manufacturing and supplying only into cafes, is that concept of specialty coffee. We had 11 % market share of supply into cafes, which gives you an idea of size. We built a prolific brand, we had an amazing team. It was just relief.
Amy (04:21)
And were there any points through the actual journey that stand out of times of just thinking, I don't know if I want to keep doing this? You know, some of my friends and fellow business owners, we're often talking and voice noting being like, what are we doing? Why did we choose this path? Maybe we'll just go get a job.
Phillip (04:38)
Yeah, look, all the time, you know, there's no secrets. I started the company in 2002, I was quite healthy, and fit over the years, before you knew it, I'd put on, you know, when I exited completely through the earn out and the whole lot and handed over the keys officially in 2017, I was weighing 167kg. I'd been traveling three weeks a month, I didn't have any work life balance or harmony, something I talk about now. And, you know, I look back and I go, it would have been much easier working for wages and it would have been much easier working for somebody else. And that's not a bad thing. That's why I made sure that all 130 plus of my staff loves coming to work and they've felt integral to the business, because the work team and staff are important and not everybody can be a business owner, but a business owner can't operate without the right people that are dedicated to the cause that are vested emotionally into the vision of the business.
So I wanted to build a workplace that people felt a part of that success and the motto has always been, the more you do for the business, the more the business will do for you in terms of time off, pay, whatever, workplace flexibility, bonuses. The more you put into the business, the more the business will put back into you because I didn't want them to feel just like a staff member or team member because I didn't want to just show up as a staff member or team member into another organisation.
But that whole saying where they say we do today really hard things so that tomorrow can be easier is something that I talk about. Everything was very difficult from 2002 to say 2014, difficult in different ways. From startup to growth to then being Australia's largest to maintaining that, to continuing the growth. But I look back and I go without that journey and without what happened there, I wouldn't be where I am today, which is, again, my kids are set up. My daughter starts university today, turns 18 in a couple of days' time. My boy's in grade 11, he's 16, just got his learners, able to buy him a new car.
It really comes back to now, you know, sitting there and being grateful and looking back and going, I'm 50, I'm the fittest and healthiest I've ever been. My kids are in a great position and set up well. I'm personally in a good space. And you know, that's where gratefulness and reflecting is so important to look back and go, I wouldn't be where I am and who I am today, had I not traveled that journey from a young age. And not just from starting a business, because my journey started nine years before that, working for somebody else, which started before that at university, which started before that growing up as a son of migrants, learning good values and work ethic and how to win with people, something that a lot of people forget today. Something that I instil into my kids, grades are good, but winning with people and a good work ethic will always beat your grades. So make sure that, you know, that to me is the trifecta. Something I instil in my kids, something that I instil in my team, is that you need that whole person in terms of their work ethic. So what I talk about now, mindset, skill set, heart set. They're the three key elements and that's something that was important to me to bring, whether I was working for somebody for nine years or when I became an employer to instil into my team. Have the right heart set, the right mindset and the right skillset.
Amy (07:41)
Yeah, perfect. And something that we are going to touch on today, which I'm keen to dig into is this sort of, the upcoming generations. But before I ask you that, I did just want to check and you mentioned, you know, money. How has your definition of success changed over the years? You know, from the beginning, was it -- right, well, I just want to make as much money as possible. But again, now you're at that other end and you ultimately, as you said, have created that secure financial future. How do you think that topic of money success has evolved over the years?
Phillip (08:10)
Great question, Amy, and I'll frame it in two ways. Firstly, my relationship with money being a son of migrants and seeing my parents bring a family up on $450 a week, you make sacrifices. So there's no brand new car. There's no air conditioning. There's only one TV. But Mum and Dad had paid off their house within 10 years of arriving in Australia. All the money got spent on good food, good times, barbecues around the table, barbecues at the beach, no fancy holidays, no fancy cars. They covered what mattered. And that was a safe house and accommodation, great food on the table and great company. So bringing it back to the value.
So growing up, my relationship with money was to have enough to do what I want when I want. To me, money was a resource to buy freedom. It was a resource to be able to buy a brand new car, which is why I love cars, to be able to fly anywhere in the world at the front of the plane anytime. So my relationship with money growing up wasn't about materialism and possessions. It was about, you know, being able to amplify what my parents couldn't do. We had a beautiful, a basic house, but beautiful, safe, big yard, cul-de-sac, grew up in a nice area. We had amazing food on the table, but there were a lot of things you couldn't have. There weren't any overseas holidays. There weren't frequent holidays, but every weekend we'd be at the beach with relatives and friends. So it really is prioritising what mattered. That upbringing instilled in me values that then I said, if I want to amplify the car I drive or amplify the holiday I have or amplify the restaurant I go to, I need to go and do something. I need to go and make something of myself. And that's where that ambition and drive came to be the master of your own destiny. That was the groundwork. That was the fire in the engine. It was never about materialism. It was never about being somebody. It was never about ego or emotion for the wrong reason.
As you fast forward, and of course, we started, did really well and all the rest of it. I talk about now and I fast track for people to understand, that to me, that success is now a triangle. At the top is health and it's non-negotiable. And on the other axis is time and money. So if you are in great health and you have enough time and enough money to do what you want when you want, then you are successful. It's not about the car you drive. It's not about the restaurant you go to. It's not about the wine you drink. It's not about the handbag you carry.
You know, I look at my parents and go -- super successful. My dad's 89. My mum's about to turn 82 on the weekend. You know, I'm fortunate to still have them around. They're in their eighties. They're not as healthy as they could be right now, but they've been quite healthy up to now, but they've had enough time and money to do what they want when they want. Dad didn't want to go back to Italy and travel. He sent Mum back two or three times. You know, he always made sure there was enough money to pay for, you know, my sister's wedding and my brother's wedding and stuff like that, family gatherings. There was always great food on the table. They had enough time and money to do what they wanted when they wanted that mattered to them. So I put them in the same category of success as somebody who might have a lot more money, but if they don't have the time, then they're not successful. And I've seen a lot of people that have money, but they don't have their health or time. I've seen a lot of people that are healthy, but don't have time or money. I've seen people that have time and health, but don't have money. To me, what I've learned, and the key takeaway for people, is that if you have your health and you have enough time and money to do what you want when you want, then you are successful. But it's identifying what you want, what matters to you, not what somebody else thinks or it's not about materialism. I always talk about, and hopefully it goes on my tombstone one day, life is measured in moments.
Amy (11:50)
Oh, I love that.
Phillip (11:58)
Because there's no removalist truck following a hearse to a funeral. We don't go to a funeral and we unfortunately see the hearse out the front. We don't see a removalist truck behind it, carrying the possessions with them. So, when somebody gets up and talks about a eulogy, the eulogy is all about the moments that people have shared, not about things. These are things that matter to me.
Amy (12:13)
Brilliant. And you've seen, you've just got me thinking as you've been talking, do you see sometimes a difference perhaps in the people that you mentor that those had the more modest financial upbringing, they got more drive and hunger to go and get that ambition than perhaps those people who basically just had everything available and on a plate? Do you ever see that distinction?
Phillip (12:32)
Yeah, of course. And I would say, wouldn't say everybody, but I would say nine in ten or eight in ten. It makes sense. And the theory behind it is, if you've come from that, you've got a softer landing. And there is always going to be, in my opinion, and for what I've seen, there's always going to be a different level of determination and hunger in somebody whose worst case scenario is not as good as somebody else's worst case scenario. That's just the way the ecosystem works, right? I love boxing and I box because I like the training, not so much the actual fighting. And I've had a lot to do with boxers. And if you look at the boxers and you study the best boxers in the world, most of them, again, not all of them, but eight out of ten, all come from a really harsh upbringing. They all come from an upbringing that was just terrible. And you analyze that data and you go, well, what is it? And it is -- when they need to dig deep, when they're getting dragged through the trenches in that ring, the person who's rock bottom is a lot harder than somebody else is going to dig deeper.
That's no different in business, in the person who's rock bottom in business…is going to be a lot more driven, a lot more dedicated and focused than somebody whose rock bottom is not. And again, it's not everyone, it's not 100%. There's going to be abnormalities in that, but eight out of ten, I would say there is a difference.
Amy (13:47)
Yeah, brilliant. And you touched on, you know, some of the younger generations that are now coming up the ranks and maybe, you know, whether they're in education or thinking onto their business careers. But, you know, I feel like there's a lot of noise and especially on the likes of social media, about a lot of the get rich quick schemes and, know, don't work a day in your life if it's not something that you love. And, you know, it seems to be that there's now, whether it's the build something, get investment, exit fast or make $100k in a month in your sleep or nothing. What's your sort of view on this for these, shall we say, younger listeners and generations about that approach to business?
Phillip (14:23)
Something I see that doesn't fail is two things. One, the common denominator of success is doing what other people are not prepared to do, putting yourself in that position to do what other people are not prepared to do, pushing harder, faster, whatever it is, normally leads to more success. And if it was easy, everybody would be doing it. We only ever hear about the quick overnight successes, but do we hear about the 95 % that have failed?
The hospitality industry, one in ten cafes closed last year. You look on the socials or you look at the media and you'll see the top 1% that are performing well. And people go, the cafe industry is booming -- because for whatever reason, shame, or there's not just enough attention brought on. What about the ones that have done it tough? What about the ones that have had a go but have failed? And a lot of them haven't failed because of their own issues or problems. It's economy based or they've been given the wrong advice or they haven't surrounded themselves with the right people. But for every one story you hear that's amazing, there'll be ninety nine that have failed. And it just proves that if it was easy, everybody would be doing it.
Like I said in the opening, not everyone can be an employer. Richard Branson says it best, and I was lucky enough to spend a week at Necker Island many years ago with Richard Branson, talking about a lot of stuff. But one of the things he talks about is an intrapreneur. You know, don't ever forget the person that works within your business that has entrepreneurial capability.
If you want, and from that I took was something, the strategy that I've always implemented. I want people good enough to own their own business, but I've got to give them a reason not to. So if I want people that are good enough to own their own, I've got to give them a reason to stay. Now that's the intrapreneur in an organisation. So this whole thing coming back to the question of, you know, everyone should do it, don't work a day in your life. Well, it doesn't make any sense. It's a lot easier now in certain industries to stand out from the crowd, with different resources, social media, the acceleration of AI, all this sort of stuff. It's opened up a lot of opportunities, but for every opportunity that's opened up, there's been a lot that have closed down.
I always say that one of the best podcast ideas, here's one for you listeners, would be a podcast where it's just about stories that have failed. Because there's so much wisdom in something not working. Imagine a podcast series where we're talking to people -- and I actually, it's not being a sadist or a narcissist, I actually like talking to people that, where stuff has gone wrong, with great respect, but to learn, to fast track my learning of what went wrong, how did it go wrong? What was the turning point? What didn't you see that was coming? And in hope that I get to protect myself and my mindset and I can learn from that and go, well, how do I make sure that I don't follow that? I don't know of any podcast that exist that just focuses on negative stories. And not because it's negative, it's just because there's so much wisdom, so much knowledge in a series like that.
Amy (17:13)
Absolutely. Well, now you've brought that to the topic, I'll go off piste of my notes then. Can you share with us some moments that stand out along your journey that were like -- it was perhaps considered a failure at the time that it happened?
Phillip (17:14)
Yeah, well, my weight was a failure, right? We're told that, you know, we can have it all. We can't have it all. You can't have a perfect, healthy body, a great relationship with your wife and kids and run a massive business that's accelerating, you know, year on year at over 60 to 80% year on year. You just can't do it, because you can't allocate the time that the family needs, the time that your body needs and the time that a business needs to have everything working in perfection. And so what I learnt from that, through failure, through putting on 80kg -- I'm 80kg lighter now than what I used to be -- I now take all school holidays off so I can spend time with the kids. What I learned through that is, you've got to prioritise what matters to you at the time that it's happening. And if you're starting a business, that's going to be a priority, but don't forget your family and yourself. If you're going through illness or sickness, don't forget your business and your family. Try and make all three work as harmonious as possible. Right? That was something I learned as a life lesson.
You know, something that I learned in business, made mistakes, was so focused on front end growth, so focused on pushing the sales team across the country, that we forgot about the accounting system. We forgot about the systems and procedures in the backend. And all of a sudden in 2010, we blew up our accounting system, you know, and that was QuickBooks at the time. And, you know, accounting systems were way different 16 years ago to what they are now. The capability wasn't the same. And imagine blowing up your accounting system that runs all of your invoicing and your accounts receivables and accounts payable, you know, and then we had to go from QuickBooks to SAP. Now that's like going from a bloody, you know, Commodore to a Formula One car. It's just different, the amount of training, the amount of cost and the amount of everything.
And the lesson I learned out of that is that when you grow, plan for your growth twelve months in advance. You know, so know where you are now and where you want to be in twelve months and put your systems and your processes and your skills capability and your workforce into the spot that you need to be in twelve months, not where you are today. Because otherwise you're working reactively, not proactively. And that was a key takeaway.
So there's been lots of lessons learnt along the way, investing in the wrong people, investing in ideas instead of people. Made that error when I exited, got a bit excited, invested in a few businesses. Luckily, a couple of them have made more than made up for the others that were lost. But lesson learned was, don't invest in good ideas, invest in good people with good ideas. That was a real key takeaway. Lost hundreds of thousands of dollars investing in the wrong people, even though the idea was good.
Amy (20:04)
And then, you know, where you're mentioning there -- investment -- does feel, there's often this, glamorising investment. Especially people who are starting a business or in those early years, and founders can often be chasing getting investment as opposed to perhaps focusing on some of the foundations and customers. What do you think of that sort of glamorised world of investment these days?
Phillip (20:27)
Yeah, I think it's a great question because I deal with different businesses. It depends what business you're building. I'm a big believer where possible businesses should be bootstrapped. I don't believe in people going out to get financial investment and they're paying themselves $250,000 a year. They get too comfortable. I mean, I was never in the top three paid people in my organisation ever. Even at the Commune now, I'm still probably the third or fourth highest paid person in the organisation.
Amy (20:52)
Well, you don't need the money anymore.
Phillip (20:55)
Yeah, but it's the philosophy that I've always used. And I mean, I'm still running a commercial venture. I'm still running it and bootstrapping it, as in, putting the money back into it to return it and churn it. I'm a big believer where possible, but there are some businesses that you can't do that. There's some businesses, especially in tech space and that, that you do have to accelerate quickly and you do have to maximise the opportunity. And in that space, then yeah, you do need to go out to market and say, right, what investment do I need? But I talk about investment and I'm part of different things like Get Ahead is a fast growing recruitment tool that's like Tinder for employment. The actual owners of Tinder are shareholders in it as well. It's called Get Ahead. They're the people that walk around interviewing people, "What do you do and how much do you get paid?", and you know, they're growing massively.
So when I worked with Sam and he approached me on investing, I said you need to make sure that all investors are functional investors. They need to bring something to the table besides money. So I'm a firm believer that if you're going out to market to raise capital, that the person bringing capital to the table has to bring more than just money to the table. You know, they have to bring convenience. They have to bring expertise. They have to bring a network of knowledge, hopefully all of those, but at least two of those besides money. It's something that I'm really key about when it comes to now looking at any opportunity that I invest in and looking at it. But again, you know, make sure I'm investing with a person with a great idea and make sure that they need more than just my money, they need other things that I have to offer.
Amy (22:24)
That's brilliant, I love that. And the thing -- I've got some quick fire questions for you as well -- but you talk about now where you are, 50, healthy, fit, financially free, but where does that really begin? You briefly talked about it at the start of this podcast to go think about actually more to your youth and some of the things you did.
Phillip (22:44)
Yeah, look, where does it begin? I think it begins in mindset, it begins in forward thinking. I've always been, I look back now and I can say this, I didn't know this at the time -- I've been quite a visual person. I'm a visual person. There's a joke that people say Phil doesn't read instructions. He'll open a box and throw the instructions away. I'm a visual learner. I've got an ability to visualise stuff. As I said, my parents were great, great role models. My brother's thirteen years older than me. My sister's eleven years older than me. I've got cousins that are in their seventies. So I've grown up around a very good family with good values. And I've been able to watch and learn from what they do, what they've done well and what they could have done better. And I think that's where it all started in the mindset of visualising the life I wanted and visualising the life I wanted to give my kids.
But if you said, where does it start? It starts with the values that are instilled in you. Now, don't get me wrong. I had a very good upbringing. But if there's people that have had a very bad upbringing. And what they learn is, I'm going to make sure I've learned what not to do. So they say, somebody that's had a bad upbringing will either follow the same footsteps or be completely different. Right? Because they'll either look at it and go, this is all I know, copy it, or they'll look at it and go, this is not who I want to be, be different. So I think we do undervalue the concept of upbringing and who we are as people. But the point I really want to hone in there is, just because you had a bad upbringing is not an excuse to be an a**hole now. You have that choice to look at that and go, I'm not gonna be that person.
When I looked at the person I worked for as a boss, I was like, I'm not going to be that person. When I go and open my own business, I'm gonna be the best possible leader that I can. I'm gonna be inclusive, I'm gonna reward great behaviour. I'm gonna reprimand bad behaviour in terms of, I'm going to point it out. But 90% of the time, I'm gonna tell them how great they are when they're being great, pull them into line 10% that I need, but I'm gonna hold myself to a higher standard than anybody else. I'm gonna make sure that I'm harder on me than I am on anybody else. I'm gonna make sure that I lead by example. I'm gonna make sure that I communicate what my vision is. I communicate what the parameters are, right? And I'm supportive and I'm standing right beside my team to help them and elevate them. That when we hit success, it's a we, not an I. We are successful, not I am successful, right, that I'm gonna talk about my team. And there's thousands and thousands of interviews over the years where, you know, I'm constantly talking about the team because they are the crux of what Di Bella was and now what the Commune is becoming. It's all about the quality of the team that you build. But again, you've got to reward them, you know, and reward to them is different to different people. You know, some it's monetary reward, some it's time, some it's, you know, gratitude. There's, as they say, there's five different languages of love. Not everybody's the same.
But I suppose the key is where people think, he's just waffling. No, it's meaningful conversations. When was the last time you had a meaningful conversation with yourself? When was the last time you had a meaningful conversation with those around you, whether it's your friends, your relatives, your kids, or your people and your workers? I think a lot of people have forgotten the art of meaningful conversation.
Amy (25:56)
Yeah. Everyone's just sort of rushing around and whether it's in your personal life, in the family home, rushing out the door or colleagues don't have time to give each other feedback or to collaborate on something. We're always in this narrative of, don't have time, I don't have time, I don't have time.
Phillip (26:11)
Everyone's rushing Amy, but no one's got anywhere to get to. That's what I laugh about is, everyone's rushing, but no one knows where they're going. You know, and I say to people, you're in a rush, what for? I'm not sure. Well, you know, and that's why it's so important to seek your outcomes, your destination, what's achievement look like, what does success look like, make it measurable, because rushing, rushing for what? If you don't know what you're rushing for, then what's the purpose, right?
Amy (26:35)
Yeah, such a good reminder, because I slip into the, always rushing or just always thinking I have more time than I do to get places if anything.
Phillip (26:43)
People are, you know, one of my pet hates is, "I'm busy". Really? So tell me the most meaningful thing you did in the last 24 hours. And I'll tell you that question stumps people. Yeah. You've been so busy. Tell me the most meaningful thing that you've done in the last 24 hours. What has stood out for you in the last 24 hours that's made an impact on you or somebody around you? Because if you can't remember, you weren't that busy. You're busy doing what?
Amy (27:02)
Busy for busyness. Before I ask you some of our Really Good Conversation cards, I've got some just quick fire questions to tap a little bit further into your brain, if you will. Obviously you have achieved a hell of a lot of your journey so far, but what if anything still makes you nervous or keeps you up at night?
Phillip (27:21)
People's expectations and what's happening at the moment. People want more for less, whether that's a customer. They want -- Australia at the moment is whinging about the $6.50 cup of coffee, yet you go to Europe or you go to America and it starts at $8 and their wages are half the price of Australia. So there's food for thought. That's quantifying it with an example. So people's expectations.
Workers are no different. I talked about it this morning with my executive manager. I said, since when does everyone start work at nine o'clock? I walked in and people are hoohaaing around and having coffee and then telling me how busy they are. Can't be that busy if you're sitting around drinking coffee, and I got no problems, drink coffee till the cows come home, I mean, that's fine, but don't tell me that, you know, you're busy. You're waltzing around at nine and you're out the door at four o'clock. That's not busy. So that comes down again to an example of people wanting more for less. It doesn't matter whether it's people in the workforce or whether it's customers. So that is a bit of a worrying thing at the moment. Yeah.
Amy (28:18)
And you have often been in the media on stage on podcasts, etcetera. Do you enjoy being recognized, or do you find it a bit tiring at times?
Phillip (28:27)
Recognised for the right reasons. I'm quietly, and this will shock listeners, but I'm introverted in new company. So, and people go, explain that. Well, of course, when I'm on a stage or when I'm being interviewed, that's part of your role. I mean, no one wants to listen to somebody who's introverted, shy, and you know, so you bring, it's part of your job, you step up, you go -- but when I say introverted to explain it, if you're having a party and there's a hundred people there or twenty people there or a thousand people there and I don't know most of them, I'm the one that'll walk in quietly and go and you know hug the walls and make my way to the back of the room. Many times been called arrogant because people think he's just being arrogant, well no, because the moment somebody comes to say hello or somebody smiles at you I'll smile back or I'll say hello. So I'm quite introverted but the recognition for me the best recognition is when somebody, and I had this the other day, where somebody will come up to you and go, I came to one of your speeches ten years ago and you told me I was going through some terrible stuff and your advice was, get comfortable with your worst case scenario, use that as your risk management plan and it changed my life. That's the best type of recognition for me. When somebody's actually going, hey, I listened to something you said or I adopted something that you put forward and it changed the way I did something or it helped me in that situation. That to me is impact. So any recognition in the fact that you've had an impact positively on somebody, I'm all for. Recognition for any other reason can be flattering sometimes, but take it or leave it.
Amy (29:54)
Yeah, love it. What kind of example do you hope your kids take from your journey?
Phillip (30:00)
That anything you want in life, you strive to attempt and try it yourself. That you don't drag others down to elevate yourself. That if there's somewhere you wanna be or something you wanna do or something you wanna achieve, that you put yourself in the forefront position to make that happen and surround yourself with the right people. Don't ever be the person who drags somebody else down to elevate yourself.
Amy (30:20)
Love that. And how do you take your coffee?
Phillip (30:24)
Depends what mood I'm in. If being super healthy, it'll be a half shot long black or a double espresso bit longer. My favorite is an extra hot piccolo. So you can imagine people's dismay when I walk into a cafe and they recognize I'm asking for extra hot piccolo because the traditional barista's like, what do mean extra hot? Can you just make me the coffee the way I like it? Coffee's personal. If somebody wants it extra hot, make it extra hot. You know, if they're paying for it, they're the customer. You don't need to give them a lesson on how coffee should be drunk.
Amy (30:50)
Have you? Gosh, I mean, if a barista did know who you were, you would be a pretty terrifying customer.
Phillip (30:56)
Oh, not at all.
Amy (30:57)
Because it'd be like, my God, I can't get this wrong. Have you ever sent a coffee back?
Phillip (31:00)
No, I haven't sent a coffee back. It's constructive criticism. I've always given constructive criticism if they ask, but I have not sent a coffee back. There's been a few times I haven't drunk the coffee.
Amy (31:13)
Well that speaks volumes though. I don't know what's worse!
Phillip (31:16)
Well, that to me is the job of the waiter to actually say, the wait staff to say, hey, is there a problem? The dialogue to say, well, you know, not so much a problem, but it wasn't made properly or, whatever. I mean, we can deliver any message we want, but in a very respectful manner is something I was always brought up to be respectful.
Amy (31:33)
Love that. And do you ever just secretly go for instant coffee and not tell anyone?
Phillip (31:37)
Big fan of instant. If it's the right instant coffee, it has a place. We've got a great instant product at the Coffee Commune on my privatecollection.coffee website. We've sourced an amazing high altitude Arabica instant that tastes like filter coffee. Here's a secret for you listeners. It's the fastest growing category now and it will be for the next three years because of the cost. It's a lot more cost effective. People are struggling with disposable income around the world. It's a global issue. The amount of money they have to spend after all of their obligations and, and needs like insurance and gas and home loans. So instant is rising fast because people will always drink coffee. They'll just change the way they drink it and what they drink. But there is some really good instant on the market.
Amy (32:18)
That's good to know actually. Has there ever been a conversation that profoundly shaped you or changed the direction of your life?
Phillip (32:26)
Yes, I was offered a job to go into government when I was finishing my commerce degree and a lot of my family worked in government. So my brother-in-law and I were sitting in a cafe and he's a lot older than me. And I said to him, you know, I've been offered a job to go into government, you know, I've a commerce degree. And he said, you're, I've known you since you were eight years old. He goes, you're not built for working in government. He's been in, he was in government for forty four years. He said, you're not built for government, you've got too much entrepreneurial spirit, you've got too much personality. Yeah, he said, that is the route for you, take it from somebody who's been in government. So my brother-in-law shaped that conversation. I've probably never told him that, but there we go, we're sharing it for the first time.
Amy (33:07)
That's amazing because in reality to have a job offer coming out of school, education, whatever it may be, would be, we'll take it, it's security, it's comfortable.
Phillip (33:23)
That's what was being drummed into me by my dad. My dad was saying, you know, go to -- I was the first one to go to university in the family. Go to university, get your degree and go get a good job in government. It was actually being pushed that way. It was my brother-in-law that said, I'm in government. It'll stifle you. It just won't be you. That's some great advice so I wouldn't be where I am.
Amy (33:46)
Amazing, I absolutely love that. Right, I've got three questions. So those questions weren't even from our packs of cards, they were just other ones that I had prepared, but three questions. So question number one, if you were a superhero, what would your superpower be?
Phillip (33:59)
Mmm, the ability to see things that others couldn't. To be able to see, you know, I was having an interesting conversation with somebody yesterday about a global conference they went to and they had an AI speaker. And in short, I'll give you the short version. He said at the time there was horses and carts, the people with horses and carts never thought there'd be cars. At the time that there's cars, no one thinks that there's going to be no cars allowed, that they'll all be driverless because humans cannot operate as good as a computer. But people are now shaking their heads going, no, there will never be driverless cars. But the people that were in horses and carriages never thought that there would be cars. So imagine if you had that vision back then to be able to see what other people couldn't see.
Amy (34:47)
Yeah. And then maybe course correct potentially as well and go, actually, maybe is that a good route for us to be going down as for human society? And look at all the damage and waste we've done over there.
Phillip (35:02)
Agreed, agreed, you hold a lot of power, Yeah. Hopefully you would use that power for good.
Amy (35:06)
Yeah. Question number two. Do you have any regrets? And if so, what are they?
Phillip (35:11)
I don't have any regrets as such. What I could have done much better was look after myself during the journey, health-wise, and be a bit more present for my kids as they grew up. Not a regret because obviously since 2017, I've been able to have all school holidays off and they're now eighteen and sixteen. So that's, you know, nine years ago. So from the age of nine and seven, they got their dad back. But if I had said, how would you do it differently? Look after myself better so that I could be more present for my kids when they were, you know, zero to eight, zero to seven.
Amy (35:45)
Amazing. And question number three, what is one piece of wisdom you want to pass on to future generations?
Phillip (35:52)
It's actually Gandhi's wisdom. Be part of the change you want to see in the world. There's a lot of people that want to talk about what they want to see in the world, but they're not prepared to be part of it. And that's Gandhi's words that I talk about quite a lot. A lot of people sit on the fence and want to bark orders and they want change and they want better government, but they're not prepared to do the work. They're not prepared to research what government stands for and they just vote like sheep or they vote based on a message or popularity competition. They don't actually go and listen to the policies or processes or what people stand for, but they're the first ones to whinge about having bad government at whatever level in whatever state and whatever council in whatever country. But be part of the change that you want to see in the world.
Amy (36:28)
Fantastic. Thank you so much for that. And the last question that I ask all of our guests is if you could ask someone a question dead or alive, who would it be and what would you ask them?
Phillip (36:39)
Look, can I have two?
Amy (36:41)
Go on yep.
Phillip (36:43)
So Nelson Mandela, and I'd have to ask Nelson Mandela, how did you forgive when anger would have been much easier? Because we all get caught up in those emotional states where our first go-to is anger. How did you actually forgive when the go-to could have been anger to fuel your existence? And the other one would be Jesus Christ, and that would be, did humanity actually understand your message or did we complicate it? Because you don't have to be biblical, you can be of any faith. So replace Jesus Christ with whatever faith you follow. But did that leader of that faith, did humans actually understand your message or did we complicate it?
Amy (37:29)
Yes. Wow. Brilliant. Well, thank you so much for everything you have shared today. We honestly could talk for hours and hours about various different parts of your world, your journey and the lessons that you've learned along the way. So really appreciate everything that you have shared. And we've only even touched briefly on the Coffee Commune. So give a shout out to our listeners for where people can find out more about your world or any things you're doing this year.
Phillip (37:54)
Yeah, so the Coffee Commune, coffeecommune.com.au, we're Australian first concept. It's all about accelerating people's potential in the hospitality industry. It's a place where everyone comes to collaborate. It was a place where people said we could never build. We're a facility, so we're a $20m facility where you can manufacture any sort of volume of coffee. And then we're a community that now has over 1,850 members, the largest private community, non-government funded in Australia in hospitality where we're having a lot of impact with advocacy and workshops and education, but everything filters down to helping people accelerate their potential.
For those of you that love coffee, I've released a private coffee collection. So privatecollection.coffee is where you can get fresh roasted coffee delivered to your home or office at factory prices. That's my personal thirty odd years of coffee expertise, all in a bag or in many bags, so to speak. So, if you love coffee, big shout out and have a look at that range for your home or office.
Amy (38:51)
Fantastic. Thank you. It sounds like you've got no signs of slowing down right now. So thank you for everything you shared and look forward to chatting again.
Phillip (38:59)
Thanks for having me.
Amy (39:03)
Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed the episode and that it's left you with something to reflect on or talk about beyond this conversation. Be sure to check out the show notes for more information on today's guests and if really good conversations are your thing, share this episode with a friend, hit subscribe and join us next time.
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