The Addicted Mind Podcast

In this episode of The Addicted Mind, host Duane Osterlind sits down with author, veteran, and off-grid farmer Robert "Bob" Stark. Bob shares his powerful journey of overcoming an 18-year battle with substance abuse, transitioning back to civilian life after parachuting into Iraq during the initial invasion, and deconstructing the rigid constraints of hyper-masculinity.
Bob opens up about how he used writing to process unaddressed childhood and combat traumas, moving from anger and blame to deep internal healing. Today, Bob celebrates 11 years of clean and sober living on a 40-acre off-grid farm in the Kenai Peninsula of Alaska, where he is learning to balance strength with the gentleness his family deserves. Tune in to hear an inspiring conversation about resilience, the power of putting pen to paper, and the continuous journey of transformation.

Key Takeaways & Highlights
The Reality of Post-Combat Transition: Bob shares the stark contrast of sleeping with a rifle by his side in Iraq to sleeping in his car just two weeks later, highlighting the hyper-vigilance and isolation many veterans face.
Breaking Out of the "Man Box": A deep dive into the societal expectations of male stoicism. Bob discusses the challenge of moving away from the "power through it alone" mentality to embrace emotional vulnerability and gentleness as a father.
Writing as a Catalyst for Healing: Bob reveals why he is his most honest self when putting pen to paper. He shares how writing his two books allowed him to reframe his life experiences and process deep traumas without finger-pointing or resentment.
Manifesting Dreams Off-Grid: From living with candles, oil lanterns, and no refrigeration to building a thriving 40-acre solar-powered farm with his family, Bob talks about the power of vision boards and relentless action.
Action Beats Stagnation: Why thriving in recovery requires a willingness to keep trying new therapies, habits, and paths until something finally sticks.
Bob’s One Piece of Advice: If you are feeling lost or stuck, start with the smallest foundational pieces: look at your lifestyle, your routine, your diet, and your sleep habits.

Robert Stark (Bob) is an Army veteran who served four and a half years in the military, including a deployment as a paratrooper during the invasion of Iraq. He is the author of two deeply personal books, War Flower and Just Like a Soldier, which chronicle his experiences with trauma, military life, and long-term recovery. Bob has been clean and sober for 11 years and lives off-grid in Alaska with his wife, Savannah, and their four children, where they run their family farm, Secret Garden Alaska.

Resources & Links Mentioned
Robert's Website & Farm: Secret Garden Alaska (Find his books, blog, and products here)
Books by Robert Stark: * War Flower
Just Like a Soldier
YouTube Channel: Secret Garden Alaska


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Supporting Resources:
If you live in California and are looking for counseling or therapy please check out Novus Mindful Life Counseling and Recovery Center
NovusMindfulLife.com
We want to hear from you. Leave us a message or ask us a question: https://www.speakpipe.com/addictedmind
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In this episode, Duane Osterlind talks with Nawal Roy, the visionary behind Holmusk, the world’s largest clinical data platform for mental health. After a successful career in finance, Nawal pivoted to healthcare, driven by the realization that mental health is one of the most complex, yet least quantified, areas of medicine.
They dive deep into how Holmusk has spent 11 years building a "scientific-grade" database of over 42 million patients, shifting mental health care away from "hunches and poetry" toward precision and evidence-based science.
Key Discussion Points
The Data Gap in Mental Health: Historically, mental health treatment has relied on clinician intuition rather than hard data. Nawal explains how Holmusk "normalizes" messy, unstructured electronic health records to create a searchable, scientific database.
The 10-Year Wait: Data reveals a heartbreaking reality: the average journey from the onset of symptoms to receiving meaningful care is 8 to 10 years.
Ending the Trial-and-Error Cycle: A typical acute patient might cycle through 10 to 12 different medications over 18 months before finding what works. Nawal discusses how large-scale data can help clinicians find the right treatment faster.
The Power of Comorbidity: Mental health doesn't exist in a vacuum. Treating depression can significantly improve outcomes for physical conditions like diabetes, yet these are often treated as separate issues.
Measurement-Based Care: Nawal argues that "engagement is not outcome." He highlights the desperate need to move toward a system that measures functional improvement (like GAF or CGI scores) rather than just "showing up for therapy."
AI and the Future of Psychiatry: How Holmusk is using Natural Language Processing (NLP) to "read" thousands of unstructured doctor's notes and train AI models to provide clinically accurate—not just "nice sounding"—guidance.

"Mental health is currently closer to poetry than science... we need to bring the level of rigor found in pediatric oncology to the mental health community." — Nawal Roy
"You can't improve what you don't measure. If we have data, we can actually make real, significant change to people's lives." — Duane Osterlind
Big Takeaways
Demand Data: Patients and stakeholders should demand that mental health be treated with the same clinical rigor as physical health.
Outcome over Engagement: Simply attending sessions isn't enough; we must measure whether the patient is actually getting better.
The Role of AI: AI has the potential to democratize access to care, but it must be trained on massive, clinically valid datasets to avoid "hallucinations" and provide safe, effective support.
Resources Mentioned
Holmusk: holmusk.com
NeuroBlue: Holmusk’s flagship data analytics platform.
ACE Study: Referenced by Duane regarding Adverse Childhood Experiences and their long-term health impacts.

LinkedIn: Nawal Roy

Follow and Review: We’d love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.
Supporting Resources:
If you live in California and are looking for counseling or therapy please check out Novus Mindful Life Counseling and Recovery Center
NovusMindfulLife.com
We want to hear from you. Leave us a message or ask us a question: https://www.speakpipe.com/addictedmind
Disclaimer

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Download: Shame Sabotaging Your Recovery Worksheet
Have you ever noticed that after a slip in recovery, your thoughts immediately jump to "I'm worthless" or "I'm never going to get better"? These aren't just random negative thoughts – they're part of a powerful emotion that might be secretly sabotaging your recovery journey. In this eye-opening episode of The Addicted Mind Plus, hosts Duane and Eric Osterlind dive deep into the crucial difference between guilt and shame in addiction recovery. Through evidence-based research and practical experience, they reveal why many people mistakenly identify their shame as guilt, and how this misunderstanding can keep them trapped in the addiction cycle. The hosts share three powerful, scientifically-backed tools that listeners can start using immediately to build shame resilience and strengthen their recovery journey. Whether you're in recovery yourself or supporting someone who is, this episode offers essential insights into breaking free from the destructive grip of shame while building a healthier relationship with yourself and others.
KEY TOPICS
The critical difference between guilt ("I made a mistake") and shame ("I am a mistake")
How toxic shame fuels the addiction cycle
Research findings on shame's direct link to substance use problems
The importance of shame resilience in recovery
Three easy tools for breaking the shame spiral
The role of connection and community in overcoming shame
Practical language shifts for transforming shame into growth
TIMESTAMPS
[00:01:20] Introduction to shame's impact on recovery
[00:02:31] Research findings on shame vs. guilt in addiction
[00:04:00] How toxic shame creates a negative cycle
[00:08:14] First tool: The Language Shift technique
[00:09:40] Second tool: The Shame Interrupt method
[00:11:00] Third tool: The Connection Practice
[00:13:40] Community resources and next steps

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This episode features a deep dive into the complex neurobiology of betrayal with Dr. Stan Tatkin, the developer of PACT (A Psychobiological Approach to Couple Therapy). Hosted by Duane Osterlind, the conversation explores why betrayal feels like an existential threat, the role of shame in stalling recovery, and the "hard pills" that must be swallowed for true relationship restoration.
The Anatomy of Betrayal
Betrayal is often misunderstood as simply a sexual or financial act. Dr. Tatkin defines it more deeply as the violation of the free flow of vital information.
Identity Shattering: When vital information is withheld, the discovery partner's entire history, identity, and sense of reality are retroactively altered.
The "Secret Basement": Engaging in deceptive behaviors creates a psychological "basement" that triggers a "sleeping with the enemy" dynamic once revealed.
The Neurobiology of Discovery
The brain of a betrayed partner enters a state of Post-Traumatic Stress (PTSD).
Automatic Re-sorting: For approximately one year after discovery, the brain will automatically resort every past memory to fit the new data—this happens without the person’s permission.
Hypervigilance: Because the "safe" environment (the partner) has become a "threat" environment, the survival system remains stuck in the "on" position.
The "Distancing" Betrayer
Dr. Tatkin notes that a large majority of "secret keepers" fall into the avoidant/distancing attachment group.
Adaptation over Choice: Avoidant behaviors often stem from early childhood neglect where the infant learned to "auto-regulate" through fantasy and compartmentalization rather than seeking comfort from others.
Self-Objectification: These individuals may treat partners as "self-objects"—extensions of themselves—rather than separate people with their own rights and feelings.
The Role of Shame vs. Guilt
Shame is often the greatest hurdle to healing.
Parasympathetic Collapse: Shame feels like a physical "bleeding out" or exposure of one's guts.
The Trap of Self-Flagellation: When a betrayer indulges in their own shame, they effectively "role-reverse," forcing the betrayed partner to care for them.
Justice and Fairness: For a relationship to heal, the betrayer must move from shame (which is about self) to contrition and guilt (which is about the harm caused to the other).
Key Takeaways for Healing
Boundaries Save Relationships: Dr. Tatkin argues that the betrayed partner must "throw down" and be willing to leave. For the betrayer to change, they must lose the relationship they thought they had. Without consequences, there is no motivation for character change.
The Burden is on the Secret Keeper: To repair the bond, the betrayer must be willing to be the "hero, the healer, and the villain" simultaneously, falling on their sword repeatedly without complaining about the length of the process.
Co-Regulation is Essential: We heal through the eyes of others. While the betrayer cannot look to the betrayed partner for comfort initially, they must find groups, therapists, or "unafraid others" to help regulate their shame.
Tools for Self-Regulation:
Journaling: Distancing yourself from the "movie" in your head by putting it on paper.
Talking Aloud: Naming emotions (e.g., "Right now I feel humiliated") to engage the prefrontal cortex and interrupt the "silent running" of toxic self-talk.
Resources Mentioned
The PACT Institute: thepactinstitute.com
Books by Stan Tatkin: Wired for Love, We Do, and In Each Other's Care.
Duane Osterlind: Novus Counseling
"Attachment biology tells us on an existential level: I can't quit you, it feels like death. But I can't live with you either. This is the 'dark side' of attachment that keeps us in relationships even when we shouldn't be—unless we stand on principle." > — Dr. Stan Tatkin

Follow and Review: We’d love it even more if you could drop a review or 5-star rating over on Apple Podcasts. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” then a quick line with your favorite part of the episode. It only takes a second and it helps spread the word about the podcast.
Supporting Resources:
If you live in California and are looking for counseling or therapy please check out Novus Mindful Life Counseling and Recovery Center
NovusMindfulLife.com
We want to hear from you. Leave us a message or ask us a question: https://www.speakpipe.com/addictedmind
Disclaimer
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Download: From Self-Blame to Self-Compassion Recovery Worksheet.
Are you your own worst enemy in recovery? This episode tackles the hidden barrier that keeps many people stuck in addiction - a harsh inner critic. Hosts Duane and Eric Osterlind explore how self-blame can sabotage recovery efforts and share research-backed strategies for developing self-compassion. Drawing from Dr. Kristen Neff's groundbreaking research, they explain why being kind to yourself isn't just "feel-good talk" but a powerful tool for lasting change. The hosts break down practical steps to transform your inner dialogue and explain why self-compassion actually leads to better accountability than harsh self-criticism. Whether you're in recovery or supporting someone who is, this episode offers actionable tools to break free from shame and build lasting resilience.

Key Topics
The difference between self-compassion and self-excuse
Research evidence supporting self-compassion in recovery
How shame fuels addiction cycles
Practical steps to develop self-compassion
The role of community support in building self-compassion
Connection between self-compassion and accountability
Tools for identifying and transforming your inner critic

Key Timestamps
[00:01:23] Why we're kinder to others than ourselves
[00:03:35] Understanding the trap of self-blame
[00:05:02] Introduction to Dr. Kristen Neff's research
[00:07:34] Self-compassion vs. making excuses
[00:08:23] Practical steps for developing self-compassion
[00:11:36] The importance of common humanity
[00:14:31] Different timelines for change

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.