The Allender Center Podcast

• The Support That Ministry Leaders Need with Dr. Rose Madrid Swetman

  Pastors today are navigating a complex, demanding, and often overwhelming landscape. Beyond the pulpit, they're expected to show up as counselors, administrators, fundraisers, teachers, building caretakers—and more. Some research even suggests pastors are carrying the weight of 13 different roles. It’s no wonder so many feel stretched thin, exhausted, and alone. Today, Rachael and Dan sit down with Dr. Rose Madrid Swetman, Associate Director of the Center for Transforming Engagement, to name the often-unseen burdens pastors and ministry leaders carry—and to explore what it means to create space for care, support, and more sustainable leadership. Whether you're a pastor, a ministry leader, or someone who walks alongside and loves one, this episode offers a deeply human invitation: to reflect on how we care for ourselves, our leaders, and our communities. You’ll find honest stories, thoughtful wisdom, and tangible practices for cultivating resilience—not by striving harder, but by rooting more deeply in connection: with God, with others, and with the truth that we were never meant to carry it all alone. Related Resources: Feeling overwhelmed or isolated in ministry? You’re not alone. The Center for Transforming Engagement offers tools, support, and community to help you rediscover joy, build resilience, and lead with lasting impact. Find program offerings and resources at transformingengagement.org and find out more about Resilience Circles at transformingengagement.org/circles.  Self-Facilitated Resilience Retreat Guides: Download this free series to focus on three key areas of resilience: People, Practices, and Purpose. These mini-retreats are flexible and self-paced, providing practical tools to navigate life's challenges and strengthen your resilience. Get your free guides at transformingengagement.org/self-facilitated-resilience-retreat-guides. Rose cites the work of Steven Sandage, a Boston University School of Theology professor of psychology of religion and theology, who has found rates of post-traumatic stress disorder symptoms in clergy at levels higher than those in post-deployment military personnel. You can read about that work here: https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/why-are-so-many-religious-leaders-facing-stress-and-burnout/.  Rose also recommends looking into the work of Abraham Kuypter on public theology. Find more here: https://lexhampress.com/Kuyper

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• The Narrative of Good Friday

  Good Friday is often described as paradoxical—a day of deep sorrow somehow called “good.” In this moving episode of the Allender Center Podcast, Dr. Dan Allender and Rachael Clinton Chen invite us into that paradox, not just as observers of the crucifixion story, but as participants—people whose own stories of betrayal, abandonment, and suffering echo the narrative of Jesus’ final hours. Together, they explore what it means to enter into Good Friday by entering into our own “Fridays”—those dark and disorienting moments of our lives when we've not only been betrayed, but also betrayed others. The conversation invites us to reflect on the intersection between personal pain and collective suffering, and to consider how our experiences of humiliation, violence, and even despair connect us to the story of the cross. But this episode is not one of despair alone. It’s an invitation to sit honestly in the tension of a day when evil seems to win, and yet—somehow—we dare to believe redemption is being forged in the depths of that agony. As Rachael says, it’s a time when we’re forced to confront the death of a dream, the silence between what is and what is promised. And yet, even in the sorrow, there is a movement toward hope. This topic is not easy—but it is so important to engage. We hope today’s conversation offers space to weep, to name, and to consider how our own stories might be met and transformed by the suffering and love of Christ.  

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• Sibling Dynamics

  Few relationships shape us like those with our siblings.  Whether you have siblings, share a sibling-like bond with a cousin or family friend, or are a parent navigating sibling dynamics, these relationships often play a significant role in defining our identity. Since so many of our listeners have asked us to explore this topic, today on the Allender Center Podcast, Dan and Rachael are diving deep into the messy, beautiful, and sometimes heartbreaking world of sibling dynamics. In today’s episode, we explore how these dynamics often lead to rivalries, alliances, and, at times, painful wounds that can last well into adulthood.  These sibling roles aren’t just part of our personal stories—they are deeply rooted in ancient patterns. We see these themes echoed in biblical texts, where stories of favor, envy, and scarcity unfold through generations. From Cain and Abel to Joseph and his brothers, the struggles we face with our siblings have a long, storied history. Tune in to gain fresh perspectives on navigating your sibling relationships, create space for growth, and learn how to honor the complex and beautiful stories each of you is living out.  

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• Revisiting “The Sex Talk You Never Got” with Sam Jolman

  Last year, we had a powerful conversation with author Sam Jolman about his book The Sex Talk You Never Got—one of our most-listened-to episodes of the year. Now, Sam returns to share more about the book’s impact and to dive deeper into its themes. This time, he and Dan explore the biblical story of Amnon and Tamar in 2 Samuel 13, a tragic account of lust, power, and sexual violence that resonates deeply with age-old struggles of the human heart. Sam unpacks how a man’s sexuality is shaped not only by personal choices but also by the unspoken legacies of family and culture. He challenges men to move beyond a simplistic “behaving vs. not behaving” mindset and instead engage their own stories with honesty, grief, and healing. Their conversation also examines the cycle of violence—how Absalom’s attempt to avenge Tamar only leads to further destruction. True healing requires humility, repentance, and a willingness to confront painful histories. This conversation is a call to courage: to name harm, seek healing, and embrace a sexuality that honors and protects rather than consumes and destroys. Please note that this episode contains discussions of sexual development and sexual abuse, including rape, and may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. === Are you ready to step into a deeper journey of healing? Recovery Week is a transformative, holistic experience designed to create a safe, relational space where survivors of sexual abuse can process their stories with care and courage. Here, you’ll be invited to engage the deep impact of your past while discovering a path toward restoration, connection, and self-compassion. Applications are now open for our Summer 2025 Recovery Weeks.  Take the next step toward healing. Visit theallendercenter.org/recovery-week to learn more.

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• Food, Sex, and Shame, Part 2

  In part two of this conversation, Dan and Rachael continue their exploration by addressing the profound link between shame, food, and sex.  Shame is often leveraged by evil around our core needs for nourishment and intimacy to isolate and create deeper wounds, making it difficult to engage these areas with openness.   Dan emphasizes, "Knowing your story’s vulnerability to how you have been harmed, but also how you've used food and sex," is crucial. Rather than allowing shame to silence or control us, Dan and Rachael encourage listeners to confront it with boldness. While shame may never fully disappear, we can engage it—not with harshness or self-destruction, but with a fierce kindness and courageous defiance. Rachael shares: “The Spirit is often inviting me in the disruption of shame, not to power up and go toward fight, flight or freeze as a way to disrupt shame, but to move toward tenderness, to move toward grief, to move toward a kind of righteous anger that leads to a ‘hell no.’”  Ultimately, the work of dismantling shame happens within a community of care. Dan reminds us that true healing takes place in a "playground of kindness"—a space where we are seen, known, and deeply loved. Please note that this episode contains discussions of sexual development, sex, body image, and disordered eating, and may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.  

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