The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan

Tori Gill was still cutting hair on weekends when she sold her first 20,000 sunscreens. A former hairdresser with two kids, no e-commerce background, and a product that took two years to develop, she launched Sun & Daughter on Boxing Day 2024 and hasn't really stopped since. This is the follow-up episode - and a lot has happened.

In this episode, Tori gets real about what scaling from $100K to a million-dollar brand actually looks like from the inside: the stockouts, the 54-hour Facebook ad account lockout, the $20,000 orders she had to back herself on, and the retail decision she's made that could either be her smartest move yet - or, in her own words, "the biggest mistake of my life."

What you'll learn in this interview:

How a consumer watchdog report on failing sunscreen SPF tests became an unexpected growth moment - and how Tori moved fast enough to capitalise on it

Why she packed every order from her spare room for a full year, alongside two kids and two days a week in the barber shop, before finally moving into a warehouse the week before Christmas

The exact moment a Choice magazine article turned into a sales spike, and how having your formula independently tested can become your most credible marketing asset

How Tori used a trending audio format - kids in hats, waiting for SPF results - to make an ad that outperformed every polished campaign she'd ever run

Why she treats her Instagram like a reality TV show, and what that means for how she handles UGC, consistent visuals, and the decision never to post other people's faces on her brand page

The average order value lesson she learned from Founder that led her to build out hats, brushes, wet bags, and bundles - and push her AOV from $75 to over $111

Why she skipped Black Friday, never ran a sale in year one, and then sold 1,000 sunscreens in 24 hours the first time she did - and why she hasn't done it since

Lessons from adding 5 to 10 new ad creatives every single week, and why she's changed her entire campaign structure three times in 15 months

How she uses Instagram Stories polls to let her community choose product colours, hat designs, and packaging - and why it's as much about solving her own indecisiveness as it is about building loyalty

What she's learned about going into major retail - the upfront stock commitments, the hidden marketing costs, and why she still doesn't know if it was the right call

If you're building a product brand and starting to feel like you're holding multiple plates in the air at once - ads, content, stock, manufacturing, team, retail - this episode is worth your time. Tori doesn't have it all figured out, and she says so. But the way she thinks through each decision, tests before she scales, and keeps backing herself anyway is exactly the kind of thinking that turns a spare-room operation into something real.

SAVE 50% ON OMNISEND FOR 3 MONTHS
Get 50% off your first 3 months of email and SMS marketing with Omnisend with the code FOUNDR50. Just head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://your.omnisend.com/foundr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get started.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER
Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+
Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?
→ Starting from scratch? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
→ Already have a store? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH BY TORI GILL
Instagram → https://www.instagram.com/sunanddaughter_/

Tori's ⁠⁠⁠Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/@torigill__/

Tori's Barber ⁠Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/torigill_barber/
Website → ⁠⁠https://www.sunanddaughter.com.au/

FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES
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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

I see it every single time. Great product. Solid branding. Ads running. And yet it won't scale. Conversions are flat, the economics don't work, and the founder is convinced it's the creative or the funnel or the targeting.

It's never the ads. It's the offer.

Here's the problem: most founders spend 90% of their time perfecting the product and almost no time on the complete package around it. The framing, the bundle, the guarantee, the AOV. And without that, no amount of ad spend is going to save you.

In this episode, I break down what a deliberately engineered offer actually looks like, why getting it right is the single biggest unlock for scaling, and the real-world examples from our Foundr Operators members and the brands spending $100K-plus a day that prove it.

Here's what you'll take away:

Why conversion problems are almost always an economics and offer problem, not a product, creative, or funnel problem

How IM8 turned a supplement powder into an irresistible offer and why every element of their bundle is deliberately engineered

How Foundr Operators member Emma tripled her brand's revenue with Sisu without increasing traffic, just by rebuilding her offer

The AOV floor every e-commerce brand needs to hit before paid ads can scale profitably

What makes an offer feel risk-free: guarantees, social proof, returns policy, and friction reduction done right

Why your customer isn't buying a product. They're buying certainty, value, and the feeling that this is the obvious choice

If your ads aren't scaling and your conversion rate isn't moving, stop tweaking your creative and start here. Getting the offer right is the thing that changes the trajectory, and everything else gets easier once it clicks.

If you're loving this solo series, I'd love to hear your feedback. Email me directly at nathan@foundr.com — I read every reply. Hope you enjoy it.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER

Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+

Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?

→ Starting from scratch? Apply here → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

→ Already have a store? Apply here → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN

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FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES

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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

A Victoria's Secret Angel and a Goldman Sachs investor built one of the
most talked-about luxury body care launches in recent memory without
raising a cent or paying a single influencer. Jasmine Tookes spent two
decades on the world's biggest runways turning down incubator deal after
incubator deal, waiting to build something real. When she finally met
Sabrina Carstensen—who spent years evaluating consumer brands at
Goldman—they launched Brunel bootstrapped, profitable, and with a
two-person team that pushed their chemists harder than any brand they'd
ever worked with.

In this interview, the co-founders of Brunel break down how they built a
luxury body care brand from scratch on a lean budget, why organic
community came before paid ads, and what it actually takes to get
suppliers and manufacturers to take a self-funded brand seriously.

What you'll learn in this interview:
• Why Jasmine turned down 15 years of incubator deals before building her own brand
• How they kept capital in reserve for collection two before collection one ever sold
• Why word of mouth and organic TikTok drove their entire early growth—no paid influencers
• Why the three-oil bundle outsold every individual product on launch day
• The packaging crisis four months before launch—and how sheer persistence solved it
• Why they stayed fully organic for six months before turning on paid ads
• How Sabrina's investor background shapes every capital decision at Brunel
• Why they didn't hire until they were ready—not desperate
• Why their chemists said no brand had ever pushed them this hard
• What Miranda Kerr's 11 years building Kora taught Jasmine about legacy brands

If you're building a beauty or lifestyle brand, trying to grow
profitably without burning cash on paid ads before you're ready, or just
want the real story behind what luxury brand building looks like on a
bootstrapped budget, this conversation will change how you think about
product standards, community, and building something that lasts beyond
the founder's name.

SAVE 50% ON OMNISEND FOR 3 MONTHS
Get 50% off your first 3 months of email and SMS marketing with Omnisend with the code FOUNDR50. Just head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://your.omnisend.com/foundr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get started.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER
Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+
Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?
→ Starting from scratch? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
→ Already have a store? Apply here →
⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanhchan/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH BRUNEL
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/brunel/
Website → ⁠https://brunelbeauty.com/

Jasmin's Instagram → ⁠https://www.instagram.com/jastookes/

FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES
YouTube → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/2uyvzdt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
Website → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠
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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

Most founders think their product is different. But if your marketing sounds like everyone else's — better ingredients, better results, better formula — your customer hears nothing. Because when everything sounds the same, nothing stands out.

Here's the problem: customers don't just buy outcomes. They buy belief that your way of getting there is different. And without a unique mechanism, you're leaving that belief on the table — and handing the sale to whoever communicates their difference more clearly.

In this episode, I break down the concept of unique mechanisms — what they are, why the fastest growing DTC brands all have one, and how to find and articulate yours even if you think you don't have one yet.

Here's what you'll take away:

What a unique mechanism actually is — and why naming the process, not just the outcome, is what makes a product feel proprietary

How IMAÉ's "90-plus clinically dosed ingredients across nine organ systems" turns a supplement into a category of one

Why Instant Hydration's Sel Gris sourcing and Pillar Performance's triple magnesium are textbook examples of mechanism done right

How WHOOP repositioned from fitness tracker to "recovery-based performance system" — and why that framing is the whole game

The four questions to ask yourself right now to uncover the unique mechanism you already have but aren't communicating

Why most founders already have something differentiated — they just can't articulate it clearly enough to make customers believe it

If your ads aren't converting the way they should, or your product feels like it's competing on price instead of value, this episode will show you exactly what's missing — and how to fix it before your next campaign.

If you're loving this solo series, I'd love to hear your feedback. Email me directly at nathan@foundr.com — I read every reply. Hope you enjoy it.

WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS?
Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER

Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+

Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?

→ Starting from scratch? Apply here → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

→ Already have a store? Apply here → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN

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FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES

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Website → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

Paul Tran started Manscaped with $50,000, a bloody problem nobody was talking about, and a category that didn't exist. The company hit $300 million in revenue in just 36 months, eventually turned down a $1 billion SPAC deal, and has become the #3 men's grooming brand in a category dominated by companies over 100 years old—while staying profitable the entire way.

In this interview, the founder and CEO of Manscaped breaks down the exact DTC playbook that got him from 10,000 units sold out in two weeks to nine figures in annual media spend, why he waited until $50–60 million in marketing spend before entering retail, and the counterintuitive brand decisions—including turning down better-performing ads—that built one of the most recognizable men's lifestyle brands in the world.

What you'll learn in this interview:
• How Paul identified a completely unaddressed category and validated it with just 10,000 units and $5-a-day Facebook ads
• Why Manscaped had lower revenue than Paul's other two businesses at launch—and the three signals that told him it had the highest potential
• The $18,000 mistake that wiped out a third of the starting budget in one hour—and what it taught him about brand vs. performance media
• Why he deliberately waited until $50–60 million in annual media spend before entering retail—and why most brands jump in too early
• The brand values decision that cost them short-term revenue: why they turned down better-converting ads that used provocative imagery
• How 66% of first-time buyers chose a starter kit—and the bundle-testing framework behind it
• Why he walked away from a $1 billion SPAC deal in 2021—and why that decision looks like genius three years later
• The post-purchase upsell structure that turns a single transaction into a lifetime customer
• Why consumer brands should never adopt the VC "raise and burn" playbook—and how Manscaped scaled to $300M while staying profitable
• What Paul would do radically differently if he started today—and why AI changes the entire early-stage playbook

If you're building a DTC brand, trying to figure out the right time to go into retail, or looking for the real story behind how a category-defining brand gets built from scratch on a shoestring, this conversation will fundamentally change how you think about timing, positioning, and what profitable scale actually looks like.

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PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING?
→ Starting from scratch? Apply here →
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→ Already have a store? Apply here →
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CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan⁠⁠⁠⁠
LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanhchan/⁠⁠⁠⁠

CONNECT WITH PAUL TRAN
Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/paultran/
LinkedIn → ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulhtran/
Website → https://www.manscaped.com/

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