In this tender and richly insightful episode of In Conversation with Janina Fisher: Wisdom Between Colleagues—Insights for Us All, Janina Fisher, PhD, welcomes friend, longtime collaborator, and trauma expert Lana Epstein, MSW, MA, LICSW. Together, they reflect on their 30-year journey as clinicians, supervisors, teachers—and kindred spirits working to understand the nuances of healing trauma.From their days as board members of the New England Society for the Treatment of Trauma and Dissociation to co-teaching for Bessel van der Kolk’s early conferences, Janina and Lana recount their shared roots, deep clinical respect, and mutual influence. But this conversation is more than nostalgic—it’s a profound dive into the integrative work of healing both trauma and attachment wounds.Lana brings a unique voice to the field as a hybrid clinician fluent in EMDR, Sensorimotor Psychotherapy, clinical hypnosis, and parts work (including IFS and TIST). She shares how she weaves these modalities into a deeply relational, body-informed practice—one that doesn’t fix clients, but co-creates with them the conditions for change.Together, Janina and Lana explore:Why attachment wounds are often the “last piece” clients can’t resolve through traditional therapyThe clinical challenge of teasing apart trauma from early relational injuriesHow to work with clients who “armor up” even when they desperately want loveA powerful, somatic case vignette involving curling inward, reaching, and receivingThe role of bilateral stimulation in calming nervous system overwhelm—even before trauma processingWhy chunking down and co-regulating through presence matters more than technical masteryThe importance of right brain-to-right brain attunement and implicit communicationAn accessible explanation of memory reconsolidation and how it rewires the emotional weight of traumaLana also shares a poignant personal story of her own breakthrough in a group therapy session—when, in the midst of crying about feeling unloved and alone, she instinctively bolted upright when others tried to offer physical support. That reaction, she says, taught her more than years of insight-oriented therapy. It was the moment she began to understand how to help clients unveil what they long for but push away.Throughout the episode, Janina and Lana model the humility, humor, and humanity that defines truly effective trauma treatment. They speak candidly about not always knowing what they’re doing—and why collaboration, not clinical certainty, is the real key to healing.Whether you're an EMDR-trained therapist wondering how to bring the body into the room, or a somatically trained clinician looking to integrate memory reconsolidation techniques, this episode is a masterclass in respectful integration.If you would like to connect with Lana Epstein, please reach out to her at:
[email protected] Epstein, MA, LICSW, has maintained a private practice in Lexington, MA, since 1984 and currently has office hours in NYC. Her focus has been on individual, couple, and group psychotherapies, specializing in the treatment of clients who have survived traumatic childhoods. She is a past supervisor at the Trauma Center, was a member of the New England Society for the Treatment of Trauma and Dissociation board for six years, and is a founding member of the New York City Association of Trauma Therapists. Integrating a number of therapeutic models, Lana presents internationally and is interested in the integration of Sensorimotor Psychotherapy and EMDR.Show Notes:
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