The Edward Show

E1179: PBNs still work in 2026, and Kalin Karakehayov has the numbers to back up why he thinks they remain one of the most underrated strategies in SEO.
I'm joined by Kalin Karakehayov, Charles Floate, and David Quaid for a deep discussion on black hat SEO, private blog networks, aged domains, backlinks, AI search, parasite SEO, and where search is heading next.
Kalin owns more than 200,000 domains and operates a PBN of roughly 30,000 websites. He explains why PBNs have become easier to operate than they were a decade ago, why his network doesn't need organic traffic to pass value, and how he evaluates domains based on strength, relevance, history, and geography.
Charles and David push the discussion further into how agencies could build private networks of their own, why backlinks remain fundamental to ranking, and why so many SEOs have moved away from link building even though links still drive results.
Then the conversation moves into AI search.
Kalin explains his research into Common Crawl and harmonic centrality, a link metric based on proximity across the web rather than the traditional PageRank model. He lays out a theory for using domains with high harmonic centrality to increase crawling and potentially increase the chances of websites entering AI training data.
Charles explains how Common Crawl data can also be reverse engineered to find valuable domains and connections between websites, and the group discusses what this means for GEO, AI citations, brand associations, and the future value of aged domains.
We also get into:
- Why Kalin believes PBNs are underrated in 2026
- How a 30,000-site PBN works without ranking the individual sites
- PBNs vs. public link farms
- Why private networks are harder for Google to identify
- Why backlinks without traffic still pass value
- How Kalin evaluates aged and expired domains
- Exact-match domains and partial-match domains
- Why valuable domains keep getting more expensive
- PageRank vs. harmonic centrality
- Common Crawl and AI training data
- How domains could influence AI visibility
- Charles' approach to reverse engineering Common Crawl
- The danger of negative SEO in AI search
- Why the internet increasingly becomes a fight for digital territory
- The ultra-high-quality vs. ultra-low-quality content strategy
- Why Kalin thinks websites stuck in the middle face the biggest problem
- How Charles chooses between Google, YouTube, AI search, and other channels
- Using parasite SEO to test markets before investing heavily
- How Charles would approach a new website with a limited budget
- Building the entire core of a site before launch
- When to start building links
- Why SEO risk isn't as simple as "white hat" vs. "black hat"
- Why Charles focuses on ROI instead of labels
This is a wide-ranging conversation about what actually works in SEO, how black hat SEOs think about risk and assets, and how those strategies are evolving as search expands beyond Google into AI.
⭐️ Kalin Karakehayov on 𝕏 - https://x.com/Karakehayov 
⭐️ Kalin Karakehayov on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/karakehayov 
⭐️ Kalin Karakehayov on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kalin.karakehayov/ 
⭐️ Kalin Karakehayov on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/karakehayov 
⭐️ SEO.Domains (domains and backlinks) - https://seo.domains 
⭐️ GigaLinks (AI SEO and citations) - https://gigalinks.com 
⭐️ SEO.BO (SEO agency) - https://seo.bo 
⭐️ I Grow Younger - https://i.gy 
⭐️ I Grow Younger on YouTube - https://youtube.com/@growyounger 
⭐️ Charles Floate's community - https://seo.stream 
⭐️ Charles Floate on 𝕏 - https://x.com/Charles_SEO 
⭐️ Charles Floate on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlesfloate/ 
⭐️ Charles Floate on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@CharlesFloate 
⭐️ Charles Floate on Facebook - https://facebook.com/thecharlesfloate  
⭐️ David "The King" Quaid on 𝕏 - https://x.com/DavidGQuaid 
⭐️ David "The King" Quaid on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidquaid/ 
⭐️ David "The King" Quaid on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DavidQuaid 
⭐️ David "The King" Quaid's agency - https://primaryposition.com/ 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Meet The Panel
00:39 Are PBNs Underrated
02:04 PBN Risks And Footprints
04:25 Shared PBNs And EMDs
07:24 Zero Traffic PBN Math
10:40 Buying And Assessing Domains
12:38 Backlinks Culture Wars
16:34 AI Search Makes Domains Pricier
19:28 Harmonic Centrality For LLMs
22:35 Testing Common Crawl Strategies
27:44 Token Engineering And Negative SEO
31:20 Economics Of Link Inflation
34:28 Stop Debating Start Building
41:03 Territory Mindset And AI Agents
44:21 Search Opportunity And Click Economics
46:38 Cheap Sites With AI
47:29 Budget Question Reframed
47:48 Ultra High vs Low
50:43 Channel First Planning
54:10 MVP Zero To 100
56:26 Build To Exit
58:26 Career Moves And Networking
01:00:59 Comfort Zone Duality
01:04:51 Safe But Dangerous
01:10:31 Hedging With Parasites
01:12:09 Sell Links As Hedge
01:18:44 Scale Like A Commodity
01:21:36 Minimum Viable SEO
01:23:41 Where To Find Them
01:25:47 Podcast Wrap Up
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#blackhatseo #searchengineoptimization #privateblognetwork #seo

E1177: Ross Hudgens of Siege Media breaks down the page type driving the most AI search traffic across his clients: versus pages.
Ross says Siege Media's correlation analysis found that clients with the most AI traffic also had the most comparison and versus content. We get into why these pages perform so well across ChatGPT, Gemini, Google, and traditional search, how to structure them, and why most companies still execute them poorly.
We also go deep on branded subreddits, Reddit SEO, AI search measurement, link building, digital PR, keyword research, content refreshes, publisher traffic declines, and how SEO strategy is changing as more searches end without a click.
In this episode:
- Why versus pages are driving so much AI search traffic
- Why comparison pages belong on landing pages instead of blogs
- Where to put comparison tables
- How to write versus pages without turning them into templated SEO garbage
- How to choose which competitors deserve comparison pages
- Why three-way comparisons sometimes work
- How versus pages support sales teams beyond SEO
- Why companies struggle to publish honest competitor comparisons
- Using YouTube influencers when a brand refuses to publish comparison content itself
- Why branded subreddits matter for SEO, reputation management, and LLM visibility
- When a company has enough branded search demand to justify its own subreddit
- How little traction a branded subreddit needs before it starts ranking
- Why Reddit still matters even as its AI citation share changes
- Repurposing existing website content onto Reddit
- Using branded communities to rank for review and reputation queries
- Why Siege Media does less manual link building than it did years ago
- Where link-building budget is moving instead
- Why fewer niche bloggers exist today
- The growing role of LinkedIn, YouTube, influencers, and UGC in search
- Why backlinks still matter even as the open web shrinks
- How Siege Media approaches digital PR differently today
- Using proprietary data across multiple existing ranking pages
- Why recurring annual and quarterly data studies compound over time
- How publishers need to rethink monetization as AI takes top-of-funnel clicks
- Why publishers still hold valuable influence inside LLM answers
- The problem with treating Perplexity like it has the same importance as ChatGPT
- How Ross measures AI search and GEO performance
- Why "How did you hear about us?" remains one of the strongest attribution questions
- The AI search tracking tools Siege Media uses
- How third-party citations influence LLM visibility
- Why generic "best overall" positioning often fails
- How LLMs categorize brands into specific use cases
- Siege Media's KOB keyword research framework
- How Ross now adds LLM visibility into keyword prioritization
- How to decide whether a keyword deserves a new page
- Why top-of-funnel informational SEO keeps getting harder
- The types of informational content that still defend their clicks from AI
Ross has spent more than 14 years building Siege Media and working across SEO, content marketing, link building, digital PR, and now AI search.
This conversation gets into what Siege Media is doing more of in 2026, what it has reduced, and where Ross thinks search is moving next.
⭐️ Ross Hudgens on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosshudgens/ 
⭐️ Ross Hudgens on 𝕏 - https://x.com/RossHudgens 
⭐️ Ross Hudgens' book, Generative Engine Optimization: The Definitive Guide to AI SEO - https://www.amazon.com/Generative-Engine-Optimizations-Ross-Hudgens/dp/1394439806 
⭐️ Siege Media Book page - https://www.siegemedia.com/geo-book 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Meet Ross Hudgens
00:30 Siege Media Origin Story
00:56 Versus Pages Win AI
07:07 Comparison Page Blueprint
09:54 Avoid Templated Comparisons
13:33 Branded Subreddit SEO
15:48 Republishing Content on Reddit
25:05 Less Manual Link Building
26:48 LinkedIn and Social Signals
33:58 Digital PR Data Strategy
40:27 Publisher Survival in AI Era
44:33 Measure GEO and AI Traffic
46:54 AI Long Tail Traffic
48:03 Tools For Measuring
48:27 Citation Share Strategy
50:16 New Client Audit
51:02 Common SEO Mistakes
53:23 Versus Pages Limits
54:05 KOB Keyword Framework
55:46 LLM Visibility Signals
57:52 New Page Or Update
01:00:54 Rank Position Eight To One
01:02:10 AI Content UX Fails
01:05:24 When To Refresh Content
01:09:00 Reddit And Offsite SEO
01:14:49 Site Structure Mapping
01:17:01 CRO Is GEO
01:18:36 Prompt Tracking Mistakes
01:20:05 Influencing LLM Answers
01:21:35 AI Slop Sites Fade
01:24:38 Hallucination Story
01:29:17 Using AI As Partner
01:30:23 Schema And LLMs Txt
01:33:32 Quick Wins And Wrap Up
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#generativeengineoptimization #answerengineoptimization #searchengineoptimization #seo

E1177: Google just changed how its parasite SEO penalty works across Europe, but the headline leaves out the most important part.
I break down Google's change to its Site Reputation Abuse Policy inside the European Economic Area and explain what it means for parasite SEO, publishers, affiliate sites, and SEOs trying to rank through high-authority domains.
The European Commission challenged Google over its treatment of publisher sections containing sponsored, commercial, and third-party content. Google responded by changing how its manual site reputation abuse actions affect searchers inside the EEA.
As of August 30, the manual-action impact no longer applies to users searching from the European Economic Area, which includes the 27 EU countries plus Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein.
That sounds like a massive win for parasite SEO.
There's a catch.
Google says it may separate the affected section of a website from the rest of the domain inside its ranking systems. That means a parasite section might avoid the manual penalty while also losing the authority it previously inherited from the host website.
In this episode:
- What parasite SEO means
- Why Reddit provides such a simple example of parasite SEO
- Why the EU challenged Google's Site Reputation Abuse Policy
- What changed for searchers inside the European Economic Area
- Why the United States, United Kingdom, and other non-EEA markets still operate under the existing penalty system
- How Forbes Advisor became one of the clearest examples of publisher parasite SEO
- How Forbes ranked for commercial terms across insurance, finance, VPNs, home services, health, and other industries
- What happened after Google started enforcing its site reputation abuse rules
- Why removing the manual penalty does not mean parasite SEO gets a free pass
- How Google plans to separate third-party sections from the authority of the main domain
- Why subfolders and subdomains matter
- Why Forbes using forbes[.]com/advisor matters to this discussion
- Why Google's section-level authority separation will determine how big this change really becomes
- Why the EEA search results may look very different from US and UK search results
- Why implementation will likely create unusual opportunities and inconsistencies
- What SEOs are saying about the change
- Why this matters more for publishers than social platforms like Reddit, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn
I also explain why the real SEO story here is not simply "Google stopped penalizing parasite SEO."
The real question is whether Google successfully identifies commercial third-party sections and prevents those sections from inheriting the full ranking authority of the host domain.
If Google gets that right, the manual penalty matters a lot less.
If Google struggles with it, EEA search results could get very interesting.
I finish the episode with community reactions and my take on what SEOs need to watch next.
⭐️ Google: Update to the Site Reputation Policy - https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2026/08/update-site-reputation-policy 
⭐️ Charles Floate on 𝕏 - https://x.com/Charles_SEO/status/2093229846013137123 
⭐️ Lars Lofgren: Forbes Marketplace - https://larslofgren.com/forbes-marketplace/ 
⭐️ Browser Media: The Downfall of Parasite SEO and Google's Site Reputation Abuse Update - https://browsermedia.agency/blog/the-downfall-of-parasite-seo-and-googles-site-reputation-abuse-update/ 
⭐️ European Commission: Investigation into Google Demoting Media (Digital Markets Act) - https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/commission-opens-investigation-potential-digital-markets-act-breach-google-demoting-media 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Parasite SEO Explained
00:49 EU Rule Change
02:00 Forbes Advisor Case
03:45 EEA Penalty Removed
04:59 Authority Separation Nuance
06:31 What Changes In Search
07:15 Community Reactions
08:06 Impact On Social Platforms
10:00 Episode Wrap Up
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#searchengineoptimization #parasiteseo #digitalpublishing #seo

E1176: Breaking down legal SEO - specifically search engine optimization that makes money for personal injury law firms.
I talk with Lindsey Busfield of Optimize My Firm about how her team approaches SEO exclusively for personal injury law firms.
We get into the pages that make money, how to structure a legal website, how law firms build authority, what drives Google Maps rankings, and why reviews matter so much for personal injury firms.
We also break down how Lindsey's team earns backlinks through scholarships, local organizations, news coverage, original studies, and even a $75,000 Guinness World Record campaign.
Topics include:
- How to structure a personal injury law firm's website around practice areas, locations, and increasingly specific case types
- Why longer-tail legal pages often rank faster and support more competitive parent pages
- Which legal SEO pages generate the highest-value signed cases
- How to avoid thin or repetitive location pages by making each page specific to the city
- Why Lindsey builds links to useful studies and linkable assets instead of pointing every backlink directly at money pages
- How scholarship campaigns generate links from schools and local organizations
- How to create newsworthy campaigns that earn local press and backlinks
- How Lindsey's team finds journalists and pitches stories personally
- Why branded mentions still matter even when a news outlet refuses to add a backlink
- Why good legal content needs human writers who understand the subject
- Lindsey's process for finding writers and why she says she goes through roughly 500 candidates to find a great one
- Why her team does not use AI-generated content on law firm websites
- How attorney photos, personal branding, and consistent messaging increase trust and conversions
- Why law firms should make phone numbers, forms, and other contact options immediately accessible
- How Google reviews affect local visibility and lead volume
- Why review recency matters alongside review quantity and rating
- The three factors Lindsey focuses on for Google Maps: reviews, organic rankings, and proximity
- How personal injury firms expand their Maps presence with legitimate satellite offices
- Why incorrect Google Business Profile categories and inconsistent address information hurt local SEO
- How to find bottom-of-funnel legal keywords instead of chasing informational traffic
- How to use the Google Sheets AI function to filter large keyword lists for commercial intent
- Why legal SEO still matters as AI search grows
- How reviews, podcasts, YouTube, directories, rankings, and a broader digital footprint influence how people and AI systems understand a law firm
Lindsey also explains why personal injury SEO has such high stakes: some cases are worth tens of thousands of dollars, while others reach into tens of millions. The goal is not simply rankings or traffic. The goal is getting the right prospective client to trust the firm, make contact, and sign.
⭐️ Lindsey Busfield's agency, Optimize My Firm - https://optimizemyfirm.com/ 
⭐️ Lindsey Busfield's Podcast - https://optimizemyfirm.com/podcasts/ 
⭐️ Lindsey Busfield's book - https://optimizemyfirm.com/leads-book/ 
⭐️ Lindsey Busfield on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lindsey-busfield 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Legal SEO Kickoff
00:15 Lindsay's Unusual Path
01:37 Niche Focus PI SEO
01:55 Link Building Strategy
03:21 Types of Backlinks
03:50 Compact Keywords Ad
05:00 Scholarship Link Outreach
06:41 Creative Scholarship Ideas
07:30 Newsworthy Link Campaigns
08:05 Guinness Event Breakdown
10:44 Cheaper PR Alternatives
11:25 Pitching Journalists Right
14:26 Cases That Earn Press
16:49 First 30 Days SEO Plan
17:44 Tracking Tools Stack
18:21 WordPress Elementor Build
20:00 Site Hierarchy Silos
21:39 Internal Links Breadcrumbs
22:20 Conversion Focused Pages
24:17 Clean URL Structure
25:44 Natural Writing Beats Stuffing
28:05 Hiring Training Writers
29:06 Writer Screening System
29:47 Screening Writer Applicants
31:24 AI Policy for Legal Writing
33:02 Money Pages and Local SEO
35:35 Linkable Assets Strategy
36:22 Bios and Trust Signals
42:01 AI Recommendations and Footprint
43:59 Reviews That Drive Leads
46:24 Bottom Funnel Keyword Research
49:20 Local Pack Ranking Factors
51:14 Maps Expansion and Mistakes
53:39 Bad Content and Spam Links
54:58 Future of Legal SEO
56:47 Where to Find Lindsay
57:50 Wrap Up and Next Episode
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/ 
#legalseo #legalmarketing #searchengineoptimization #seo

E1175: Most SEOs know how to rank websites. Far fewer know how to sell that skill.
Blair Witkowski joins to break down how he sells SEO services without leading with the word "SEO." Instead, he talks about phone calls, missed leads, competitors showing up in ChatGPT, and money the business owner leaves on the table.
Blair walks through his sales process from the first cold call to the signed client, including the exact research he does before calling, how he gets prospects to agree to a Loom audit, how he follows up, and what he sells once the prospect says yes.
We cover:
- Why Blair avoids talking about SEO during sales calls
- How he sells "more phone calls" instead of rankings
- How he uses ChatGPT and AI visibility as the opening problem
- How he builds prospect lists by niche and location
- What he checks on a website before making the call
- Why he looks at the website footer before spending more time on a prospect
- How he finds problems within seconds instead of spending 30 minutes researching every lead
- How directories give him a reason to contact businesses
- The cold-call opening he uses with local businesses
- How he gets past gatekeepers without asking for the owner
- Why he researches the business before calling
- How he ties every technical problem back to lost revenue
- The role Claude audits, GeoGrids, SplashDash, BBB listings, reviews, and competitor research play in his pitch
- How he gets roughly one Loom audit from every 20-25 cold calls
- What he shows inside the Loom without overwhelming the prospect
- Why he sends the Loom almost immediately after the call
- Why multiple Loom views signal serious interest
- How he follows up without saying "just following up"
- Why he keeps contacting prospects for months or even years
- The prospect who saved one of his cold emails for almost a year before hiring him
- Why Blair sends Starbucks cards, books, cookies, DoorDash, and other gifts during follow-up
- Why he treats every prospect who agrees to an audit like a future client
- How he reports a roughly 42% close rate after prospects agree to a Loom audit
- How he uses simple spreadsheets to track prospects and follow-ups
- What he charges for local SEO clients
- Why $1,800-$3,500 per month represents his main pricing range
- How some clients reach $6,500 per month
- What he delivers at lower, middle, and higher monthly retainers
- Why higher tiers include more websites, Google Business Profiles, links, sponsorships, content, and local assets
- Why he sometimes pays for links and local sponsorships out of the monthly retainer
- Why communication matters after the sale just as much as getting the result
Blair also explains why business owners rarely care about SEO terminology. They care about missed calls, missed jobs, competitors taking business, and whether their marketing produces revenue.
If you know how to rank websites but struggle to consistently get clients, this episode gives you a complete look at how one agency owner approaches prospecting, sales, follow-up, pricing, and fulfillment.
⭐️ Blair Witkowski's Personal Site - https://blairwitkowski.com/ 
⭐️ Blair Witkowski's SEO Agency - https://coastalmarketingstrategies.com/ 
⭐️ Blair Witkowski on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheGarageDoorPodcast 
⭐️ Blair Witkowski on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/blairwitkowski/ 
⭐️ Blair Witkowski on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/blairwitkowski/ 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Sales Episode Kickoff
01:10 Why SEOs Stay Broke
02:50 Offer That Clicks
03:16 Directory Cold Call Hook
05:31 Cold Call Research Stack
07:12 Gatekeepers And Openers
09:18 Loom Audit Pitch
12:39 Sell AI Phone Calls
16:28 Prospecting And Follow Up
19:11 Directories Best Of Plays
21:22 Live Electrician Call Script
25:31 Pricing And Deliverables
32:52 Loom Audit Structure
37:09 What To Fix In Loom
40:04 Live Audit Proof Points
40:49 Loom Follow Up System
42:26 Tracking Views And CRM
44:08 Pricing And Service Tiers
48:50 Higher Tier Trust Signals
52:48 Global Selling With Accents
57:17 Handling SEO Company Objection
01:00:27 When To Stop Following Up
01:02:40 Lead Sources And Call Volume
01:06:11 Hiring Callers And Directories
01:09:48 Client Win Stories
01:15:07 Scaling Out Of Operations
01:17:21 No Small Talk Cold Calls
01:19:06 Charge More Final Advice
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#searchengineoptimization #generativeengineoptimization #seo #digitalmarketing