The Edward Show

E1150: James Dooley and David Quaid return to debate one of the biggest questions in SEO right now: is GEO a separate discipline, or is it just SEO under a new name?
James says he used to agree that GEO was simply SEO with a different label. Then his own team changed his mind. He now runs a separate GEO/AEO department because people who can rank websites #1 in Google can still struggle to get brands cited in ChatGPT, AI Overviews, AI Mode and other LLM-driven results.
David pushes back. His argument is that most of the work required for GEO still comes back to strong SEO: understanding query fan-out, creating the right pages, earning links, building authority, controlling more of the search results and getting third-party sites to corroborate what a brand says about itself.
The debate eventually lands on a more interesting point: James believes only about 1% of decent SEOs can actually do GEO well because there are additional layers beyond traditional website SEO.
In this episode:
- Why James created a separate GEO/AEO department after initially believing GEO was just SEO
- Why ranking #1 in Google does not automatically mean you will be cited by ChatGPT or appear in AI Overviews
- James's argument that GEO is closer to SEO plus online reputation management
- David's case that GEO tactics are still fundamentally SEO tactics applied across more surfaces
- Why third-party corroboration matters for AI visibility
- How Yelp, TripAdvisor, Clutch, DesignRush, G2, Capterra, Reddit and other sites can influence what AI systems see about a brand
- Why reviews, awards, case studies and brand reputation matter when a buyer asks AI to choose between two companies
- How query fan-out changes the keywords and pages SEOs need to think about
- Why James says GEO involves different competitors, tracking, KPIs and reporting
- How parasite SEO, supplementary websites and exact-match domains can be used to control more of the information around a brand
- The difference between tactics designed to move Google rankings and tactics designed specifically to increase AI citations
- The role of press releases, social distribution and third-party mentions in getting faster AI visibility
- James's fastest approach to AI visibility and what he considers more sustainable long-term work
- Why building a defined entity, reviews, awards, knowledge panels and consistent third-party references matters over time
- Why some GEO agencies may simply be weak SEO agencies using a new label
- How businesses should evaluate a GEO agency before spending serious money
- Why enterprise companies are moving larger parts of SEO, branding and traditional marketing budgets into GEO
- Whether SEOs should start selling GEO even if they believe the underlying work is still SEO
James and David disagree on where SEO ends and GEO begins, but they agree on one important point: a GEO provider who cannot understand and execute SEO is unlikely to be very good at GEO.
If you work in SEO, run an agency, manage a brand, or are trying to understand how ChatGPT and AI search are changing search visibility, this episode lays out both sides of the argument with specific examples and tactics.
⭐️ James Dooley's website - https://jamesdooley.com/ 
⭐️ James Dooley on 𝕏 - https://x.com/james_dooley 
⭐️ James Dooley on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameszdooley/ 
⭐️ James Dooley on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jameszdooley/ 
⭐️ James Dooley on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/james.dooley1/ 
⭐️ James Dooley on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@JamesDooley 
⭐️ David "The King" Quaid on 𝕏 - https://x.com/DavidGQuaid 
⭐️ David "The King" Quaid on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidquaid/ 
⭐️ David "The King" Quaid on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DavidQuaid 
⭐️ David "The King" Quaid's agency - https://primaryposition.com/ 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 GEO vs SEO Debate Setup
00:45 Why AI Visibility Differs
02:25 GEO as SEO Plus ORM
05:17 Market Confusion and SEO Is Dead Claims
07:15 Budgets Branding and Off Page Proof
11:55 Can You Do GEO Without SEO
13:27 Yelp Reviews and Local Listings
22:05 Tools KPIs and Claim Frame Prove
26:15 SERP APIs and Query Fan Out Shifts
28:20 Creativity Outranking Listicles
32:54 Black Hat SEO vs LLM Poisoning
39:04 GEO Hype Emotional Marketing
43:17 Big Budgets and Boardroom Criteria
47:37 AEO Off Page Signals
49:12 Vetting GEO Agencies
51:18 Independent Advisor Panels
53:19 Budgets Shift To GEO
55:28 Fast AI Visibility Plays
59:36 Pop Under Traffic Boosts
01:00:50 Sustainable Entity Building
01:01:50 Query Fanout Hacks
01:07:14 Experimentation Mindset
01:10:36 King Of SEO Case Study
01:14:18 Temporal Semantics Explained
01:21:46 Common Crawl Training Test
01:30:58 Final AI Visibility Takeaways
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/ 
#searchengineoptimization #generativeengineoptimization #answerengineoptimization #seo

E1149: Jason Barnard breaks down how to get a Google Knowledge Panel for yourself or your business in as little as three months.
We cover why clarity and consistency are the foundation of entity SEO and how Google decides whether it understands who you are.
Jason explains what an "Entity Home" is, why your About page matters, and how to structure it for both humans and search engines.
We go through the platforms new brands should consider, including LinkedIn, Crunchbase, The Org, social profiles, and review sites.
Jason also explains why linking between your website and these profiles creates an "infinite loop of self-corroboration" that can strengthen Google's confidence in your entity.
We discuss SameAs schema, common schema mistakes, website architecture, pillar pages, navigation, and why your homepage should usually focus on your brand rather than targeting a keyword.
Jason shares how to write entity descriptions that are easier for Google and AI systems to understand, including the importance of semantic triples, related entities, and removing ambiguity.
We also get into why third-party mentions, podcasts, press coverage, and other external sources can make a Knowledge Panel more stable and authoritative.
Jason explains why Knowledge Panels matter beyond Google Search as people increasingly use ChatGPT, Gemini, and other AI systems to research brands and individuals.
Finally, he walks through the Kalicube tools and practical steps you can use to build, track, and strengthen your presence in Google's Knowledge Graph.
Jason Barnard coined Brand SERP in 2012, the search results for your own name, your online business card. He coined Entity Home in 2015, the single page where a person or company officially lives online and where Google goes to resolve who you actually are. He coined Answer Engine Optimization in 2017, before the answer engines had arrived. Entity SEO didn't catch up to him; he was there first, and the terminology proves it.
Jason's universal three-step process for earning a Knowledge Panel on your Brand SERP:
1. Be clear on the Entity Home.
2. Keep the facts consistent across every profile you control.
3. Link out to the corroboration that proves them.
Do those three in that order, and the Knowledge Panel is the machine agreeing with you.
⭐️ Jason's Entity Home - https://jasonbarnard.com 
Kalicube Pro tools from the episode:
⭐️ Knowledge Graph Explorer - https://kalicube.pro/tools/knowledge-graph-explorer 
⭐️ Copywriting Sandbox - https://kalicube.pro/tools/google-copywriting-analyzer 
⭐️ Trusted Sources Tool - https://kalicube.pro/tools/trusted-sources 
⭐️ Person Schema Generator - https://kalicube.pro/tools/schema-markup-generator-person 
⭐️ Organization Schema Generator - https://kalicube.pro/tools/schema-markup-generator-organization
⭐️ Free Tools Hub - https://kalicube.pro/tools/free-resources 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Knowledge Panel Basics
00:15 Entity Home Clarity
02:08 What Is An Entity
04:32 Search Volume Myths
06:15 Common Setup Mistakes
08:20 Corroboration Links
09:48 Platforms To Register
11:22 Future Of Knowledge Panels
14:15 About Home Media Kit
16:18 Pillar Pages Navigation
19:04 Site Architecture Rules
22:04 SameAs Schema Tips
23:28 Transparency And Trust
25:37 Brand Naming Strategy
28:59 Disambiguation Challenges
30:43 CTR Not A Factor
31:05 Notability Relevancy Confidence
32:27 Modular Platform Descriptions
35:19 Do the Reasoning for AI
37:22 Write a Clear Executive Summary
40:03 Avoid Ambiguity and Capitalization
43:52 Third Party Proof Matters
48:25 Why Knowledge Panels Win
53:11 When Panels Don't Show
56:57 Kalicube Steps and Wrap
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/ 
#searchengineoptimization #entityseo #seo #searchmarketing

E1147: Your organic traffic is declining. Your rankings are getting more volatile. Pages that have been stable for months or years are suddenly moving down.
Before blaming a Google update, backlinks, AI Overviews, or some mysterious algorithm change, look at the simplest explanation: Your pages might not be satisfying search intent well enough.
I break down the most common reasons SEO traffic decline and what to do.
First, not every traffic decline matters.
SEO is volatile. Rankings go up and down. What matters is the overall trend and, more importantly, which pages are losing traffic. Losing low-value top-of-funnel informational clicks is very different from losing rankings on pages that generate leads, sales, signups, or discovery calls.
I cover:
- How to tell normal SEO volatility from a decline you should worry about
- Why you should separate top-of-funnel traffic losses from bottom-of-funnel losses
- Why search intent is one of the first things I check when rankings decline
- How too much fluff above the fold can hurt a page
- Why targeting keywords with conflicting intent on the same page creates problems
- A real example where fixing search intent stabilized a company's declining search visibility
- Why sites that look obviously AI-generated may create a new user-trust problem
- How competitors entering your SERPs can cause previously stable rankings to move
- Why competitors aggressively building backlinks can shake up rankings
- How tracking individual keywords makes diagnosing declines easier
- Why you should check whether losses are isolated to a specific subfolder or happening sitewide
- Why I prefer organizing SEO sites into logical subfolders instead of using completely flat architecture
- How unrelated content can confuse what Google understands your site to be about
- When pruning or noindexing unrelated content can make sense
- Why outdated content may be the entire problem
- How keyword cannibalization can cause multiple pages on your site to compete with each other
- Technical mistakes that can suddenly destroy visibility
- Accidental robots.txt blocks and noindex tags
- Staging sites accidentally getting indexed
- Plugins generating huge numbers of meaningless pages
- Programmatic SEO projects that can damage an entire site
- Why you should still check Google Search Console for manual actions
I also talk about something I think SEOs will have to pay much more attention to: AI-looking websites.
Even if the information is good, users may increasingly distrust a site that immediately looks like it was generated by Claude or another AI tool. If searchers have repeatedly encountered generic, fluffy, or hallucinated AI content, the appearance of your site itself could affect whether they stick around long enough to see that your content is actually useful.
The biggest takeaway from this episode is simple:
Before looking for a complicated explanation for declining SEO traffic, look at your pages as a searcher.
- Are you answering what they searched for?
- Are you answering it quickly?
- Is the answer obvious above the fold?
- Are you targeting one clear intent?
- Would you be satisfied if Google sent you to this page?
Sometimes you already know the answer. You just don't want to admit it.
⭐️ Ep 1141 - Can You Launch 100,000 Pages and Survive Google? - https://youtu.be/wNtiygMsRfg 
⭐️ Ep 1030 - Keyword Cannibalization: Why Your SEO Pages Compete (And How to Fix It) - https://youtu.be/n3jrXrau6kE 
⭐️ Darren Shaw's LinkedIn Post - https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7495990440530272256/ 
⭐️ My 𝕏 post - https://x.com/edwardeachday/status/2091817392372400392 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Traffic Drops Explained
00:39 Assess What Matters
01:26 Top of Funnel Reality Check
02:14 When To Take Action
02:46 Search Intent Fixes
05:21 AI Slop Trust Issues
08:25 SERP Shifts And Links
09:52 Site Structure Diagnostics
11:56 Cannibalization And Tech
12:52 Do Stable SEO
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/ 
#seo #searchengineoptimization #digitalmarketing #seopodcast

E1148: Everyone is talking about GEO, AEO, fan-out queries, schema, Reddit, digital PR, Wikipedia mentions, and dozens of other ways to get recommended by ChatGPT and other AI systems.
Devesh Khanal of Grow and Convert thinks most companies are skipping the obvious place to start: bottom-of-funnel SEO.
Devesh shares what Grow and Convert is seeing across clients after years of publishing detailed, product-focused content. Their approach is straightforward: identify the searches closest to a buying decision, create dedicated pages that genuinely answer those searches, explain the product in enough detail for both people and LLMs to understand it, and build from there.
We get into:
- Why bottom-of-funnel SEO should come before most GEO tactics
- The three keyword buckets Devesh uses: category keywords, comparisons/alternatives, and jobs-to-be-done keywords
- Why search volume is often the wrong way to prioritize keywords
- How sales calls, customer support, reviews, and customer questions can reveal better topics
- Why you probably do not need to predict or target individual fan-out queries
- What Grow and Convert found when studying the SEO footprint behind ChatGPT citations
- Why Google AI Overviews, AI Mode, Gemini, Perplexity, and ChatGPT should not be treated as if they work the same way
- How detailed content on your own site gives LLMs information about your use cases, customers, pain points, features, and products
- Why case studies can matter for AI visibility even when they are not targeting an SEO keyword
- How self-promotional "best" and "alternatives" articles can work without pretending to be neutral third-party reviews
- The difference between transparent product promotion and content that creates an intent mismatch
- Why ClickUp-style mass publishing is different from producing a handful of carefully written commercial pages
- The risks of publishing thousands of lightly edited AI-generated pages
- A company that published 25,000 AI pages and got to the point where journalists could not find the company by searching its own brand name
- Why Devesh still builds backlinks to bottom-of-funnel pages
- Why topical relevance matters more than collecting random links just to raise DR
- Why links directly to the page you want to rank can matter more than general homepage links
- How ranking bottom-of-funnel pages can indirectly create more third-party mentions when writers and researchers discover your brand
Devesh also shares a simple exercise to do this week: make a list of the 10-20 most obvious searches someone would use when looking for a product like yours, then check whether you have a dedicated URL targeting each one. If you do not, that is probably a better place to start than worrying about schema tweaks or trying to reverse-engineer every possible AI prompt.
⭐️ Devesh Khanal's website, Grow and Convert - https://www.growandconvert.com/ 
⭐️ Devesh Khanal on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/deveshkhanal/ 
⭐️ Devesh Khanal on 𝕏 - https://x.com/deveshkhanal 
⭐️ Grow and Convert Marketing Show on Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-grow-and-convert-marketing-show/id1652941589 
⭐️ Grow and Convert Marketing Show on Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/1CFauYp4GVXaMVNN9h9yxH 
⭐️ Devesh Writes on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@deveshwrites 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Episode Pitch Setup
01:40 What AI Visibility Looks Like
03:38 Skip Top of Funnel Prompts
06:21 Self Promotional Listicles
08:01 ClickUp Cautionary Tale
08:59 Do It Honestly
12:11 Scale Frequency And Stability
15:19 Why This Works In LLMs
17:23 Invisible Prompts Personalization
24:05 Keyword Buckets And Formats
29:27 Common Mistakes AI Content
32:30 Alternatives Pages Breakdown
35:54 SERP Analysis And Brand View
39:35 Positioning With Honesty
40:34 Listicles Without CTA Spam
40:56 Transparent Best Of Pages
42:41 Shopping Intent Explained
43:56 Branded Review Sites
47:58 AI Content Shadow Drops
50:12 Site Architecture Priorities
52:01 Bottom of Funnel Keyword Framework
56:29 LLM Visibility Buckets
01:03:46 Fan Out Query Myths
01:06:54 Backlinks And Citation Outreach
01:12:47 This Week Action Plan
01:13:59 Shaping The LLM Narrative
01:16:01 Wrap Up And Where To Find
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/ 
#generativeengineoptimization #answerengineoptimization #searchengineoptimization #seo

E1146: Get free niche backlinks by interviewing small bloggers, business owners, and other people in your industry.
This is a link-building method we're testing. Instead of cold emailing website owners and asking them for backlinks, start by giving them a reason to know you.
Interview them on a podcast.
Small bloggers and business owners are often much easier to book than established journalists or large creators. Many have never been interviewed before. Give them a good podcast experience, build an actual relationship, stay in touch, and you will have a natural opportunity to earn relevant backlinks.
I explain exactly how the strategy works.
You'll learn:
- How partnerships and industry relationships can produce some of the most natural backlinks
- How a podcast can be used for link building instead of traditional lead generation
- Why you should start by interviewing small niche bloggers and businesses
- How to identify potential guests with websites that could realistically link to you
- Why organizing prospects by domain authority or domain rating can help you work your way up
- How smaller podcast guests can help establish credibility before you approach bigger bloggers and journalists
- Why you shouldn't ask for a backlink during the interview
- How to stay in touch with guests through social media after an episode
- Why repeated exposure can make a future backlink request much easier
- How to ask a former guest to write about your business or list you as a partner
- How social media posts can be offered in exchange for coverage without creating a reciprocal-link pattern
- Why I would avoid building a large number of obvious reciprocal links
- How some guests may write about you without being asked
- How to use guest episodes to promote your business to people in your niche
- Why you should put your business promo within the first four minutes of a guest episode
- How to find potential podcast guests without relying entirely on cold email or DMs
- How this strategy can eventually help you build relationships with larger bloggers, journalists, and publications
The basic process is simple:
1. Find small blogs and businesses in your niche or adjacent niches.
2. Prioritize people who actively run a website.
3. Invite them onto your podcast.
4. Give them a good interview without immediately asking for anything.
5. Connect with them on social media and stay in touch.
6. Continue publishing so they repeatedly see your work.
7. After a few weeks or a month, approach about an article, partnership mention, or other relevant coverage.
8. As your podcast builds credibility, begin inviting guests with larger and more authoritative websites.
Done well, you're not only building backlinks. You're building a network of bloggers, business owners, creators, and eventually journalists in your industry.
Those relationships lead to links, partnerships, introductions, coverage, and opportunities that a standard backlink outreach email won't create.
I also discuss how I produce guest podcast episodes, how I use social media content alongside the podcast, and how you can use AIPodcastMatcher to find people interested in appearing as guests.
⭐️ AIPodcastMatcher - https://aipodcastmatcher.com/ 
⭐️ How I Produce Guest Podcasts in 90 Minutes (That Help Me Rank in Google) - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/how-i-produce-guest-podcasts-in-90-minutes/ 
⭐️ How to Get the Highest-Quality Backlinks Possible by Starting a Niche Podcast - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/highest-quality-backlinks-podcast/ 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Backlink Method Intro
00:18 Why Partnerships Win
01:05 Podcast Lead Gen Basics
02:03 Turn Podcasts Into Links
03:06 Find Targets And Level Up
03:54 Run Great Guest Interviews
04:39 Ask For The Backlink
05:59 Avoid Reciprocal Link Traps
06:37 Tools And Outreach Setup
07:53 Scale Authority And Brand
09:52 Episode Outro
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/ 
#seo #linkbuilding #backlinks #searchengineoptimization