The Edward Show

E1209: Google's John Mueller explained how Google interprets searches, expands keywords with synonyms, and connects related topics. At Search Central Live in Barcelona, Google also showed how AI search breaks one question into multiple searches before generating an answer.
I break down a widely circulated recap of the event and explain what these findings mean for your SEO strategy.
Here's what I cover:
- How Google identifies a query's language, removes unnecessary words, and recognizes names and entities.
- Why Google keeps words like "the" and "of" when they're part of a name, such as "The Lord of the Rings."
- How synonym expansion connects different searches to the same pages. Google might interpret "fried chicken place" alongside "fried chicken restaurant."
- Why context matters: "GM" means General Motors in a car search and genetically modified in a search about barley.
- How Google treats competing brands such as Canon and Nikon as related entities, but not synonyms.
- How AI search creates query fan-outs, using multiple related searches to gather information for one answer.
- Why Google's AI-generated fan-out queries don't appear in Google Search Console.
- How to study search fan-outs in Perplexity and other AI tools to identify the questions and terms they repeatedly research.
- Why you don't need to repeat every variation of a keyword on a landing page.
- How to work secondary terms naturally into a page, using "room planner app," "room planner online," and "kitchen planner app" as examples.
- Why brand mentions, backlinks, and descriptions on third-party websites matter for the searches Google associates with a company.
- How a PDF-editing website built over many years reached $106 million in annual revenue and 2.7 million monthly Google clicks.
- Which pages to build around your brand, competitors, pricing, reviews, comparisons, and alternatives.
A particularly useful takeaway: look at the follow-up searches an AI tool performs. If it repeatedly searches for "[brand] price" and "[brand] reviews," those are searches you want your own website to answer. The same applies to comparisons between your product and competing products.
I also explain why Google's understanding of synonyms doesn't eliminate the need for keyword research. You still want to choose a primary search term, identify secondary terms that matter, and cover the topic with natural language.
⭐️ The article: Google Search Central Live Deep Dive, Barcelona - Day 3 Recap - https://weareroast.com/news/google-search-central-live-deep-dive-barcelona-day-3-recap/ 
⭐️ Ep 1171 - Query Augmentation: How One Page Ranks for Thousands of Keywords | James Dooley - https://youtu.be/rHRlAMH99Y8 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Barcelona Event Overview
00:30 How Google Understands Queries
01:20 Synonyms Context Siblings
02:44 AI Search Fanout Queries
03:58 Key Takeaways Summary
04:30 Backlinks Query Augmentation
06:17 On Page Keyword Variations
07:10 Using Fanouts For Content
08:42 Find Fanouts In Search Console
08:59 Wrap Up
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#generativeengineoptimization #searchengineoptimization #seo #answerengineoptimization

E1210: What makes a backlink worth $2,000? Ilias ISM joins me to explain which links he pays for, how he finds them, and why pages that rank and get real visitors often matter more than domain rating alone.
Ilias is a software engineer turned SEO who builds SaaS products and runs an SEO agency. We break down his link-building process, the Claude Code agents he uses to find backlink opportunities and write outreach emails, and the strategies he sees working as Google and AI search change.
In this episode:
- Why Ilias would pay $1,000-$2,000 for a backlink from the right page, especially one ranking in the top 10-20 for a valuable keyword.
- How to evaluate backlinks based on page-level search traffic, relevance, referral clicks, and placement, not just domain rating.
- His starting filters for backlink prospects: 500-1,000+ monthly organic visits to the domain, relevant top pages, and no obvious signs of a link farm.
- How he finds thousands of link-building opportunities by combining competitor backlink overlaps with sites ranking for target keywords.
- An overlooked research tactic: analyze the pages linking to your competitors, then study which topics bring those linking pages traffic.
- What gets replies to backlink outreach: short, direct emails with a specific request, offer, or reason to include your product.
- How he replaced much of a complex link-building software codebase with Claude Code, a database, and tools the AI agent builds as needed.
- Why a $50 GitHub sponsorship that sent referral traffic and branded searches became an early SEO breakthrough for him.
- What nofollow links, unlinked mentions, brand searches, and social media coverage mean for search visibility.
- Why building a recognizable brand and publishing original testing, like NapLab's mattress reviews, creates an advantage over generic AI content.
- How Ilias tripled the monthly recurring revenue of an acquired AI presentation SaaS by improving its SEO, backlinks, and product.
- What he learned paying short-form video creators $500 per month each, including how to test creators before hiring them.
- How to target buyer-intent Google searches with YouTube videos, Shorts, Instagram Reels, and other third-party content.
- How to use Ahrefs to find the keywords your existing YouTube videos already rank for.
- His prediction for SEO in 2027: more discovery through social media and AI recommendations, with bottom-of-funnel pages converting visitors into customers.
We also discuss protecting paid content from AI agents, why Ilias uses public SEO audits to demonstrate his skills, and what separates long-term SEO strategies from short-term tricks.
If you build SaaS products, run SEO for clients, or want backlinks that bring rankings and customers, this conversation covers specific tactics you can put to work.
⭐️ Ilias ISM on 𝕏 - https://x.com/illyism 
⭐️ Ilias Ismanalijev on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/illyism 
⭐️ Ilias's agency, Magic Space - https://magicspace.agency 
⭐️ Ilias's link building tool, LinkDIY - https://linkdr.com/ 
⭐️ SEO Roast - https://seoroast.com 
⭐️ AI SEO Tracker - https://aiseotracker.com 
⭐️ Ilias's SEO Skills repo - https://github.com/Illyism/seo-skills 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Meet Ilias
00:28 From Startup Exit
01:57 Backlinks Breakthrough
04:10 Emailing For Links
07:21 Listicles Today
09:10 AI Overviews Shift
12:16 Brand As SEO Moat
14:52 Blocking AI Scrapers
18:28 LinkDIY Automation
23:09 Paying For Links
28:52 Authority Signals Everywhere
33:02 Scaling Competitor Data
35:45 NapLab Case Study
41:06 Avoiding Spam Links
42:57 Cornerstone Mattress SEO
44:16 Real Testing Authority
44:48 Black Hat Press Tricks
46:45 Growing on X
47:34 SEO Roasts That Convert
50:12 Funding a Vibe SaaS
51:59 Why AI Misses SEO
54:30 Build in Public Risks
56:24 Indie SEO That Works
57:16 UGC Creator Engine
01:03:36 Acquiring and Scaling SaaS
01:07:18 Social Video SEO Tactics
01:08:51 Batch Analyze YouTube Rankings
01:10:11 SEO in 2027
01:18:30 Wrap Up and Resources
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#searchengineoptimization #seo #indiehackers #generativeengineoptimization

E1208: Is GEO a distraction, or are SEOs measuring the wrong thing?
Marie Haynes analyzed 145 million sessions across 100 websites and found that ChatGPT sent just 0.62% as much traffic as Google organic. All LLMs combined sent 0.73%. Mike King argues that those numbers miss the point: AI search influences buying decisions even when people never click through.
In episode 1,208 of The Edward Show, I break down their disagreement, share my take, and explain the SEO tactics that get customers from Google and AI search.
In this episode:
- Marie Haynes's research across 100 sites and 12 months of GA4 data.
- ChatGPT generated just 0.62% of Google's organic traffic volume, and all LLMs combined generated 0.73%.
- The conversion-rate surprise: 13.8% for ChatGPT visitors versus 3.02% for Google organic visitors.
- Google's 27x conversion advantage over all LLMs combined, despite ChatGPT's higher conversion rate.
- Marie's finding that ChatGPT referral traffic has declined since August 2025.
- Mike King's response: AI search is a brand channel, not primarily a referral-traffic channel.
- Why judging AI visibility solely by clicks overlooks recommendations, trust, and purchase decisions.
- Where Mike agrees with GEO critics: schema hacks, LLMs.txt, and writing content for robots are distractions.
Then I get into the tactics:
- Build bottom-of-funnel SEO landing pages for searches people make when they're ready to buy, use something, or book a call.
- Create product pages that explain what you offer and why someone should choose it.
- Examine Promptwatch's citation data: listicles at 18.7%, landing pages at 15.2%, and product pages at 14%.
- Understand new research showing that Google cites self-promotional listicles less often, and why third-party recommendations matter.
- Get your brand included in relevant listicles on websites you don't own.
- Build backlinks, earn brand mentions, and get independent coverage from publishers and creators.
- Deliver strong customer support so people leave positive reviews and discuss your business on platforms AI search uses for research.
- Publish videos, posts, and other social content around the same buyer-intent keywords as your landing pages.
My conclusion: I don't know whether GEO is a distraction, but I know the tactics that get results.
Target buying intent. Make pages that convert. Earn links and mentions. Build a reputation people trust. Expand your reach across channels.
These efforts build on each other over time and create visibility in traditional search and AI search.
⭐️ Marie Haynes: GEO Is a Distraction - https://www.mariehaynes.com/geo-is-a-distraction/ 
⭐️ Mike King on 𝕏 - https://x.com/VeryWellVersed/status/2113335299807801456 
⭐️ Mike King: AI Search Is a Branding Channel - https://ipullrank.com/ai-search-is-a-branding-channel 
⭐️ Promptwatch research - https://www.linkedin.com/posts/gijs-de-groot2021_seeing-a-lot-of-talk-about-listicles-losing-share-7426618882129362944-FsN7/ 
⭐️ Dmytro Sokhach self-promo listicle research - https://x.com/Dmytro_Sokhach/status/2112241629281087513 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 SEO Community Controversy
00:41 Marie Haynes Data Breakdown
02:22 Why LLM Traffic Plateaued
02:59 Marie's Practical SEO Advice
03:49 Mike King Pushes Back
04:56 AI Search as Brand Channel
07:06 Host Take Bottom Funnel Focus
07:53 What Gets Cited in AI
09:25 Mentions Links and UGC
11:31 Long Cut Wins Closing
12:06 Wrapping
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#generativeengineoptimization #searchengineoptimization #seo #answerengineoptimization

E1207: An SEO spent his summer collecting more than 30,000 documents to find which SEO tactics work. That SEO, Krešimir Ćorluka, narrowed them to 9,249 studies, tests, and papers, then ranked the strongest evidence.
I covered some of his most surprising findings in an earlier episode. This time, Krešimir joins me to explain how he built the research, which results he trusts, which ones he questions, and which tactics he prioritizes in his own SEO work.
We dig into:
- How he used Ahrefs, Screaming Frog, two AI models, and manual checks to sort thousands of SEO studies.
- Why so many SEO case studies fail to prove causation: no control group, multiple changes at once, seasonality, and agencies rarely publishing failed experiments.
- Why adding "Just Updated" to a title tag beats putting the current year in it.
- What the tests found about exact-match internal link anchor text versus using lots of variations.
- Why dynamic and static prices in title tags produced different traffic outcomes.
- The Google Lens test that reported a 90% increase after adding EXIF location data and ImageObject schema, and how other EXIF tests found no benefit.
- How removing review-related schema coincided with rankings recovering for two of Krešimir's clients.
- Why he questions many AI search optimization studies, especially those measuring ChatGPT mentions from a handful of prompts.
- What the evidence says about LLMs.txt, expert quotes, statistics, and tables for AI citations.
- Why disavowing backlinks without a manual action generally doesn't improve rankings.
- His theory that Open Graph images influence which thumbnail Google shows in search results.
- Why digital PR, original company data, and useful calculators earn backlinks and brand mentions.
- How clearer product descriptions and more prominent calls to action affect ecommerce traffic and conversions.
- Why big technical SEO questions, including pagination and content pruning, still need better research.
- How to keep an SEO change log so you can revisit each change and judge its effect months later.
We also discuss a critical distinction: a study can report a large traffic increase without proving which change caused it. Krešimir explains why controlled tests deserve more weight and why you need to think through the implications before trying an unusual tactic on a client site.
Near the end, I ask what he would tell an SEO to do tomorrow. His answers include investing in digital PR and making sure your website clearly answers the questions customers ask about your products and services.
⭐️ My earlier episode breaking down the research: https://youtu.be/q3zknvoFuNc 
⭐️ The SEO Meta Study - https://ovisy.hr/blog/seo-meta-study 
⭐️ Krešimir Ćorluka on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kresimir-corluka/ 
⭐️ SEO Evidence Checklist - https://ovisy.hr/seo-checklist 
⭐️ Krešimir Ćorluka's agency, Ovisy - https://ovisy.hr/ 
⭐️ Croatia SEO Summit - https://croatiaseosummit.com/ 
⭐️ Zagreb SEO Day - https://croatiaseosummit.com/zagreb-seo-day/ 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 SEO Meta Study Setup
00:59 Building the Research Pipeline
03:57 Free PDF and Why
07:39 What Makes a Tactic Best
10:03 AEO and GEO Reality Check
15:24 Anchor Text and Disavow Surprises
20:32 Title Tag Experiments
25:11 EXIF and Schema Debate
28:08 Footer Links and SEO Risks
31:29 Product Pages That Convert
37:40 Using Proprietary Data for PR
42:36 Linkable Assets
43:25 Calculator SEO Case Study
44:10 Programmatic SEO Pitfalls
45:03 Linkable Assets Still Win
48:34 Meta Study Takeaways
50:34 Unanswered SEO Questions
52:53 Keep an SEO Changelog
56:40 What Makes Tests Shareable
01:00:55 Tell Tests as Stories
01:03:42 OG Images for CTR
01:08:27 Schema Risks and Penalties
01:13:38 Running SEO Conferences
01:19:10 Final Advice and Wrap-Up
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#searchengineoptimization #seo #generativeengineoptimization #answerengineoptimization

E1206: Black Friday SEO usually starts months before the sale. But if you're starting late, there are still ways to get your offers in front of buyers on Google and ChatGPT.
I'm joined by Gagan Ghotra, Harpreet Singh, and David Quaid to break down Black Friday SEO for ecommerce brands, SaaS companies, and anyone selling products online.
We go through the pages to create, the keywords to target, and the changes you can still make as Black Friday approaches.
What we cover:
- When to publish Black Friday pages, why February is a better starting point than October, and what to do if you're late.
- The keyword format "Black Friday + product category + deals" and how to use it for specific buyer searches.
- How many Black Friday landing pages to create without making them compete against each other in Google.
- Why brands need to own searches for their discount codes, coupons, and Black Friday offers, even when they don't run a seasonal sale.
- How different discount amounts give Google and ChatGPT more relevant offers to surface for specific searches.
- How to structure Black Friday URLs, keep useful pages year after year, and build internal links from your best-performing product and collection pages.
- How to use Google's People Also Ask questions to update existing pages and pursue rankings even at the last minute.
- What product descriptions need for AI search: materials, dimensions, compatibility, weather resistance, and the details shoppers compare before buying.
- Why product comparisons and buying guides matter when customers research in ChatGPT before they search for a deal.
- How product schema and Google Merchant Center feeds affect shopping features, plus what they won't do for organic rankings.
- How to use press releases, digital PR, affiliate partnerships, and relevant backlinks to reach searches your own site may not rank for.
- Why social posts, short videos, creator reviews, and Reddit discussions matter for Google results and AI-generated product recommendations.
- What brands can learn from Black Friday pages and search results involving Amazon, Adidas, Nike, Sony, and Mattress Firm.
- How to decide between SEO and paid ads, and how to keep converting shoppers after Cyber Monday.
We also discuss competitor keyword gaps, the risk of creating too many near-identical sale pages, and why an offer with the lowest price doesn't always get the sale.
Whether you've spent months preparing or you're putting your Black Friday campaign together now, this episode gives you concrete tactics to test before the shopping rush.
⭐️ Harpreet Singh's Personal Site - https://harpsdigital.com  
⭐️ Harpreet on X - https://x.com/harpreetchatha_ 
⭐️ Harpreet's Newsletter - https://seoespresso.com 
⭐️ Harpreet on LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/harpreetsingh8/ 
⭐️ Harpreet on TikTok - https://tiktok.com/@seoharp 
⭐️ Harpreet on YouTube - https://youtube.com/@seoharp  
⭐️ Gagan Ghotra on 𝕏 - https://x.com/gaganghotra_ 
⭐️ Gagan Ghotra on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/gagan-ghotra/ 
⭐️ Gagan Ghotra's website - https://gaganghotra.com/ 
⭐️ David Quaid on 𝕏 - https://x.com/DavidGQuaid 
⭐️ David Quaid on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidquaid/ 
⭐️ David Quaid on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DavidQuaid 
⭐️ David Quaid's agency - https://primaryposition.com/ 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Black Friday SEO Kickoff
00:30 When to Publish Pages
01:49 SERP Displacement Tactics
06:36 Discount Codes Strategy
09:10 Own Your Coupon SERPs
11:20 Above the Fold Offers
13:56 Avoid Cannibalization
21:59 AI Product Attributes
28:25 Payments and Deal Terms
31:58 Social Media SEO Plays
36:09 Creator Reviews Ecosystem
38:04 Review Domains and Mentions
40:29 Reddit Landing Pages
42:06 Should Brands Build Subreddits
42:47 Reddit Spam Crackdown
51:18 Working With Moderators
53:02 Reddit In AI Results
54:35 Digital PR Playbook
58:58 Press Release Example
01:00:47 Backlinks And Partnerships
01:03:58 LLM Guides And Long Tails
01:07:55 Agentic Buying Reality Check
01:10:20 Attribution And Analytics Fixes
01:16:17 Schema And Merchant Center
01:19:25 Claude For Schema
01:21:02 Claude vs Gemini Schemas
01:21:27 AI Video Editing Workflow
01:23:37 Merchant Center Feed Sync
01:26:54 LLMs and Product Feeds
01:29:03 Gift Guides Without ROI
01:30:07 Amazon Black Friday URLs
01:37:27 Cannibalization Explained
01:38:59 Black Friday Site Architecture
01:42:18 PAA Hack for Rankings
01:43:50 Internal Links and CRO Widgets
01:45:27 Beat Brands With Relevance
01:49:58 Budget Split and ROI Math
01:52:12 Discounts Shipping and Trust
01:53:45 Cyber Monday and Post Sale
01:56:12 Wrap Up and Key Takeaways
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#searchengineoptimization #seo #ecommerce #digitalmarketing