The Edward Show

E1050: Rand Fishkin returns to the show to talk about what is actually changing in marketing right now.
Search traffic is shrinking. AI answers are replacing clicks. Platforms are keeping users inside their ecosystems. And many marketers are still operating like it's 2015.
We break down what "zero-click marketing" really means, why brand matters more than ever, and what founders should be doing instead of chasing vanity rankings.
We also go deep into AI, PR, profitability, and how to build something that lasts.
Topics we cover:
- Why links may matter less than mentions
- The shift from traffic-driven marketing to influence-driven marketing
- What zero-click marketing actually looks like in practice
- Why ranking for informational keywords is no longer a complete strategy
- How AI is changing research, buying behavior, and brand perception
- The risks and ethics of AI-generated content
- Why many affiliate and pure publisher sites are in trouble
- The difference between building a brand and chasing search volume
- How to measure off-site marketing without relying on clicks
- Time-based and location-based experiments for attribution
- Why PR is still one of the most undervalued marketing channels
- How to think about short-term marketing "hacks" versus long-term positioning
- Why profitability gives bootstrapped founders leverage
- What Rand learned from leaving Moz and starting SparkToro
- How teaching and communication became his most valuable skills
Rand also shares:
- How Alertmouse reached 5,000 users in about 100 days
- Why product improvement drove more growth than new channels
- How to decide which marketing channels to ignore
- Why some companies survive Google updates while others disappear
- What makes a marketing strategy durable
This episode is not about panic. It's about adapting to how people actually research, evaluate, and buy today.
If you are a founder, marketer, or SEO trying to understand where the industry is heading, this conversation will give you a grounded perspective.
⭐️ Rand's first time on the podcast - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JQvdLYvGZI
⭐️ Rand on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin/
⭐️ Rand on Threads - https://www.threads.com/@randderuiter
⭐️ Zero Click Marketing - https://zeroclickmarketing.co/book
⭐️ SparkToro - https://sparktoro.com/
⭐️ Snackbar Studio - https://snackbarstudio.com/
⭐️ Alertmouse - https://alertmouse.com/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Rand Returns to the Pod
00:27 Mentions Beat Links
02:05 Marketing Beyond Google
03:20 Your First 90 Days Plan
03:51 Three Channel Rule
09:18 Choosing Uncrowded Markets
15:51 Alertmouse Growth Story
22:11 GEO vs SEO Debate
25:26 Zero Click Marketing Book
29:58 Measuring Offsite Impact
34:14 Podcasts and AI Citations
37:12 YouTube Spam in AI Search
38:51 Ethics of AI Spam
42:07 Who Wins Google Updates
45:38 Brand Over Keywords
49:43 Underpriced Channels Now
53:32 SparkToro for Audience
54:50 Sustainable vs Temporary Marketing
57:33 Building an Escalator
01:04:43 When AI Content Works
01:08:15 K Shaped AI Adoption
01:10:01 Lightning Round Wrap
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#searchengineoptimization #seo #digitalmarketing #generativeengineoptimization

E1049: One of the most common SEO mistakes is trying to do too much too fast.
In this episode, I break down why rushing SEO usually creates more problems than progress, especially for new websites. Publishing too many pages too early, automating workflows you do not fully understand, doing sloppy outreach, and chasing competitive keywords before building authority all create unnecessary variables that make SEO much harder than it needs to be.
I explain why "slow is smooth, smooth is fast" applies directly to SEO and how moving more carefully at the beginning often leads to faster long term growth.
Topics covered in this episode:
- Why publishing too many pages early can dilute authority
- How weak pages create negative SEO signals
- Why new websites should target easier keywords first
- The relationship between backlinks, authority, and rankings
- How internal linking channels authority across a website
- Why bad outreach can permanently hurt link building opportunities
- Common mistakes people make with AI generated content
- Why automation works best after you understand the underlying process
- How reducing variables makes SEO easier to troubleshoot
- Why taking breaks can improve search intent satisfaction and click through rates
- What to cut if your website already has too many low quality pages
- A simpler SEO process for new websites trying to get traction
I also talk about:
- Pogo sticking and why it matters
- Information architecture
- Keyword targeting mistakes
- Scaling SEO the right way
- Why many websites make SEO harder than it needs to be
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Slow Is Smooth Intro
00:56 Rushing Creates Chaos
01:43 Authority Gets Diluted
03:04 Sloppy Content Signals
04:14 Bad Outreach Backfires
06:09 Go Slow To Scale
07:05 Automation After Mastery
07:53 Action Steps Recap
09:54 Wrap
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#searchengineoptimization #seo #linkbuilding #digitalmarketing

E1048: How do you get backlinks when your website is brand new and has almost no authority?
We break down a real question from a founder who launched an AI tools directory and is stuck in the classic SEO chicken-and-egg problem: if no one trusts your site yet, why would anyone link to it?
We talk through what matters in the early stages of link building, what makes a new site look trustworthy, and practical strategies you can use right away - even if your domain authority is close to zero.
This episode covers:
- Why most people cannot tell that your site is "new" (unless you make it obvious)
- The biggest mistake founders make when asking for backlinks
- How to build relationships before you ever ask for a link
- How 15 minutes a day on social media can turn into real backlinks
- Why following up with journalists is critical (and how to do it properly)
- How to use AI to find journalists, develop angles, and write better pitches
- What makes a website feel trustworthy enough to link to
- How to create linkable assets people actually want to reference
- When to use Help A Reporter Out, Source of Sources, Qwoted, and Featured
- Why podcasts are an underrated backlink strategy
- Why you do not need massive authority to start earning links
We also discuss:
- Whether you should wait for traction before doing outreach
- The difference between chasing domain authority and building relevant referring domains
- How to structure your site so publishers feel comfortable linking to you
- Why most people fail to build ongoing relationships with journalists
- How to control the language around your backlinks
If you are building a startup, directory, SaaS, or content site and wondering how to earn your first 10–20 real backlinks, this episode walks through practical strategies that work in the early phase.
⭐️ The Reddit Thread - https://www.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/comments/1qugpbd/how_do_you_earn_backlinks_for_a_brandnew_site/
⭐️ The AI System to Find Relevant Journalists, Land Coverage, and Earn Ongoing High-Authority Backlinks - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/articles_ai-system-find-journalists-earn-high-authority-backlinks/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Backlink Ideas Kickoff
00:11 The New Site Dilemma
01:10 Look Legit, Not Spam
01:40 Relationship First Outreach
02:24 VA Social Comment Strategy
03:46 Keep Journalists Warm
04:31 Competitor Link Research
06:08 Trust Signals Checklist
07:31 Linkable Assets and Placements
08:28 HARO, Qwoted, Featured, SoS
09:01 Share Functions for Links
09:48 Getting Links Without Assets
10:10 Podcast and Directory Backlinks
10:56 Wrap Up
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#linkbuilding #backlinks #searchengineoptimization #seo

E1047: Google just released official guidance on how to show up in generative AI search features like AI Overviews and AI Mode. 
And according to them?
GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) is just SEO.
AEO (Answer Engine Optimization) is just SEO.
There's no special LLM optimization playbook.
So… are they telling the full truth?
I break down Google's official post from Search Central and separate what's accurate from what's incomplete. Some of it is absolutely correct. Some of it shuts down common AI "growth hacks." And one part? It works - even though Google says it doesn't.
If you care about showing up in AI search results - Google, ChatGPT, Perplexity, Claude - this episode will save you years of distraction.
What we cover:
- Why SEO is still the foundation of AI search
- How retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) actually works in practice
- What "query fan-out" means and why it ties AI visibility directly to traditional search rankings
- Whether GEO and AEO are actually different from SEO
- Why non-commodity content matters more than ever
- The real reason most AI content farms spike and then collapse
- Why LLMs.txt and "chunking for AI" are mostly unnecessary
- What Google says about structured data (schema) and AI
- The truth about off-site reputation and mentions
- The real SEO signals that matter: relevance, authority, click-through rate, reduced pogo-sticking
I also explain:
- Why chasing AI shortcuts is usually harder than doing real SEO
- How to think about page creation without creating thousands of low-quality variations
- When JavaScript SEO becomes a problem
- Why page experience still impacts AI visibility
- How to approach reviews and reputation the right way
The core takeaway:
If you build pages that satisfy searchers, reduce bounce-backs to the SERPs, get mentions, and target high-intent queries - you will show up in AI search and get conversions.
You don't need special AI markup.

You don't need secret GEO frameworks.

You don't need to flood the web with AI-generated pages.
You need strong fundamentals.
⭐️ Google's post - Optimizing your website for generative AI features on Google Search - https://developers.google.com/search/docs/fundamentals/ai-optimization-guide
🚀 Edward's SEO Articles - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/search-engine-optimization/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Google Lying Debate
00:55 SEO Still Matters
01:48 RAG And Query Fanout
03:19 GEO Versus SEO
03:50 Unique Noncommodity Content
06:06 Structure And Media
07:12 Avoid Scaled Content Abuse
08:35 Technical SEO Basics
09:36 AI SEO Myths
11:09 Mentions, Reviews, And Schema
14:06 Final Take
15:53 Wrap Up And Goodbye
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#generativeengineoptimization #answerengineoptimization #searchengineoptimization #seo

E1046: Most websites ignore image SEO.
They upload files named IMG_9283.jpg.

They leave alt text blank.

They use stock images with no context.
Then they wonder why they are not getting traffic from Google Images or why their pages are underperforming.
We break down a short thread from Hridoy Rehman on X where he shared results from optimizing images:
- 241,000+ impressions
- 7,000+ clicks
- 2.9% click-through rate
We walk through the exact steps discussed and how you can apply them to your own site.
What you will learn:
- Why image SEO still matters
- How file names affect discoverability
- Why compressing images improves performance and SEO
- How to write alt text that helps Google understand your images
- Why original images often outperform stock photos
- Where to place images on a page for stronger contextual relevance
- How to use your page content to generate better alt text
- Why re-uploading images for specific landing pages can be strategic
- How I built a personal "photos" page to influence Google Image results for my name
Topics covered in detail:
- Renaming images before uploading (and the naming structure I recommend)
- Using dashes, subfolders, and URL slugs strategically
- Converting and compressing images to WebP
- Writing contextual alt text based on full page content
- Using screenshots and original visuals instead of generic stock images
- Structuring landing pages with images placed near relevant headings and paragraphs
If you run:
- A home services business
- A SaaS company
- An agency
- An ecommerce brand
- A personal brand
These tactics apply to you.
Image SEO is a simple, overlooked part of search engine optimization that can improve:
- Relevance
- Page performance
- Accessibility
- Image search visibility
- Overall organic performance
⭐️ Hridoy Rehman post - https://x.com/hridoyreh/status/2053409879055052970
🚀 Edward's SEO Articles - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/search-engine-optimization/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Why Image SEO Matters
00:44 Rename Image Files
01:05 Compress and Use WebP
01:39 Alt Text That Ranks
01:57 ChatGPT Alt Text Workflow
03:32 Use Original Images
04:32 Place Images Near Text
04:46 Personal Photos SEO Case Study
06:09 Quick Recap and Checklist
07:41 Final Thanks and Sign Off
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#searchengineoptimization #imageseo #seo #digitalmarketing