The Edward Show

E967: What 130,000 A/B tests reveal about why websites fail to convert - even when they look polished and professional.
Sahil Patel, CEO of Spiralyze, joins the show. We talk through the most common CRO mistakes companies make across SaaS, B2B, and service businesses, including why stock photos reduce conversions, how landing pages lose high-intent buyers, and what small teams can do immediately to improve results without expensive tools.
Sahil also explains practical testing frameworks, real case studies, and counterintuitive lessons from years of running experiments on high-traffic websites.
If you get traffic but struggle to turn that traffic into demos, leads, or revenue, this conversation focuses on the fundamentals that actually move the needle.
Topics covered:
- Why stock photos consistently lower conversion rates
- The "one-second test" to diagnose weak homepages
- Hook → mirror → ladder messaging and how it applies to SEO and ads
- Why video often cannibalizes conversions in the hero section
- How to design landing pages for high-intent visitors
- Email + CTA technique and commitment escalation psychology
- The mistake of optimizing for low-intent users
- CRO experiments that produced surprising results
- Why most companies run tests that are too small to matter
- Simple CRO improvements that don't require testing software
- Social proof strategies that actually increase trust
- Where animation hurts conversion and when it can help
- CRO tools startups can use to run experiments themselves
We also discuss how sales friction impacts conversion, why buyers don't want to be reminded they're entering a sales process, and how companies unintentionally create barriers for ready-to-buy customers.
⭐️ Sahil Patel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sahilanamipatel/
⭐️ Sahil Patel's agency, Spiralyze: https://www.spiralyze.com/
⭐️ Sahil Patel on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-M25FDI8NwI1pj_UxrYzHQ
⭐️ Playlist for CRO Crimes: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhH2EfUApERQNovfcPen5zv9H299xthPU&si=nbdNXNrtPtwqViT0
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 CRO Testing Credibility
00:15 Show the Product
01:24 Car Ad Stock Photo Analogy
03:24 Data on Stock Photos
04:30 SEO Landing Page Mistakes
06:38 One Second Test
09:53 Hook Mirror Ladder
14:05 Video Kills Conversions
18:13 VSL Placement Debate
25:54 Email Plus CTA Trick
28:45 Email First Demo CTA
29:34 Nurture Or Remarketing
30:28 Sales Led Vs Product Led
31:43 Stop Forcing Human Calls
34:10 Optimize For High Intent
40:05 Big Swing CRO Testing
44:40 Tools And Low Hanging Fruit
49:11 Service Fusion Case Study
51:45 Social Proof That Works
55:01 Wrap Up
The Edward Show. The #1 digital marketing podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#conversionrateoptimization #landingpageoptimization #growthmarketing #digitalmarketing

E966: I sit down with James Owen, an SEO professional with nearly two decades of hands-on experience across some of the most competitive industries on the internet.
James shares how he went from learning SEO on online dating websites in the late 2000s to working in iGaming, travel, eCommerce, and eventually building and scaling his own agency. The conversation explores what has changed in SEO over the past 19 years, what tactics no longer work, and the strategies that continue to drive results today.
The discussion goes deep into content clustering, link acquisition, AI visibility, listicle strategies, and how agencies operate behind the scenes when managing campaigns in high-competition niches like CBD, casinos, and SaaS.
This episode is especially useful for founders, marketers, and SEOs who want a realistic view of modern search - including how AI overviews and large language models are reshaping strategy.
Topics covered:
- How James accidentally got into SEO and what early search engine optimization looked like in 2007
- Lessons from working in iGaming and other highly competitive verticals
- Why content clustering remains one of the most reliable SEO frameworks
- How to structure service pages, listicles, and long-form guides for topical authority
- The real role of link velocity in competitive niches
- Practical blogger outreach advice for people building links without an agency
- The decline of tactics like expired domain authority passing and aggressive paid linking
- Why self-promotional listicles work right now - and why they may not last
- How to increase brand visibility inside AI overviews and large language models
- The importance of being cited across listicles, review content, and external sources
- Internal navigation, crawl behavior, and insights from log file analysis
- What James would do if he had to grow a brand new SaaS from scratch with limited budget
James also explains how agencies systematize outreach, manage link quality at scale, and build internal tooling to track AI visibility gaps and competitive positioning.
If you are trying to understand what actually moves rankings today - beyond surface-level advice - this conversation offers practical insight from nearly two decades of real-world SEO experience.
⭐️ Click Intelligence UK Website: https://www.clickintelligence.co.uk/
⭐️ Click Insights Global Website: https://insights.clickintelligence.com/
⭐️ James Owen LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesowenseo/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 SEO Origin Story
03:27 Building Click Intelligence Domains
06:08 Merging UK and US Sites
08:09 Winning Competitive Niches
13:15 Content Clustering Explained
16:36 New Pages vs Existing
20:15 Epic Guides and Conversions
22:32 Link Building Playbook
28:25 Blogger Outreach DIY
34:44 Agency Systems and Automation
39:27 Old Tactics That Died
50:38 Expired Domains Today
54:39 Self Promotional Listicles
57:12 Getting Cited by LLMs
01:01:51 SEO Basics and Navigation
01:08:33 Hotels.com SEO Lessons
01:10:46 Six Month SaaS Plan
01:15:41 Wrap Up
The Edward Show. The #1 search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#searchengineoptimization #seo #digitalmarketing #searchmarketing

E965: If you can read the minds of your searchers, SEO becomes much simpler and much more profitable.
I break down what it actually means to understand keyword intent - and why most people get it wrong. When you misread intent, you create the wrong type of page, attract the wrong traffic, and wonder why nothing converts.
When you understand intent correctly, you:
- Create less content
- Rank more strategically
- Increase click-through rates
- Reduce pogo sticking
- Build brand trust
- Convert more visitors into customers
I walk through two real keyword examples and break down exactly how I would approach them.
Example 1: "voice notes for dentists" This keyword looks simple, but the intent is highly specific. I explain:
- Who is actually searching it
- Where they are in the funnel
- Why this should NOT be a blog post
- What kind of page converts best
- How to structure the page above the fold
- How SaaS companies, affiliates, and resource sites should approach it
Example 2: "best materials for coffee mugs" This keyword is very different. I explain:
- Why this is top of funnel
- What searchers are worried about
- Why this should be educational content
- How to structure the post with a strong TLDR
- Who should (and shouldn't) target it
- How to move readers into your funnel without forcing conversions
The goal of this episode is simple:
Stop spinning your wheels creating content that will never convert.
When you understand whether a keyword requires:
- A conversion-focused landing page
- A blog post
- A product page
- A video
- Or something else entirely
You save time, resources, and effort - and you make more money from the same traffic.
If you found this helpful, subscribe for daily SEO breakdowns.
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Why Intent Matters
01:04 Setup and Examples
01:39 Voice Notes for Dentists
03:18 Building the Right Page
05:34 Who Should Target It
07:10 Best Materials for Coffee Mugs
08:40 Content Strategy and Targeting
10:22 Wrap Up
The Edward Show. The #1 search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
Edward Sturm on Grokipedia - https://grokipedia.com/page/Edward_Sturm
#searchengineoptimization #seo #digitalmarketing #searchmarketing

E964: How I approach keyword research and why I believe it is one of the most valuable skills in SEO.
A lot of people try to automate keyword research or skip the manual work of looking through search results. That is a mistake. When you manually explore keywords and study the SERPs, you learn how people actually search, what language they use, and where real opportunities exist.
This focuses on finding low-competition keywords that are closer to the bottom of the funnel - the kinds of searches where people already know what they want and are actively looking for a solution.
I explain how I identify under-targeted keywords, how I evaluate search results, and how keyword research helps shape not just content, but also product positioning and messaging.
What you'll learn:
- How to use competitor rankings to discover relevant keyword opportunities
- Why bottom-of-funnel keywords are often easier to rank for and more valuable
- What to look for in SERPs to identify weak competition
- How missing keywords in page titles and URL slugs signal opportunity
- How to use Google Search Console to uncover keywords you are not properly targeting
- A simple way to generate starting keyword ideas when you feel stuck
- How to evaluate domain authority and relevance when judging ranking difficulty
- Why thin content and weak search intent coverage create ranking openings
- How keyword research helps you understand customer language and market demand
- Why manually reviewing SERPs gives insights that automation misses
I also talk about how keyword research can make a niche feel much more attainable than it initially appears, and how consistently targeting smaller, relevant keywords builds the foundation needed to compete for larger terms over time.
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Benefits of Keyword Research
01:29 Start With What's Working
02:47 Prioritize Bottom-of-Funnel
03:14 Seed Keywords
04:49 Mine Google Search Console
05:11 The "Diabolical" Move
06:17 SERP Checklist
07:37 Beat Thin & Irrelevant Pages
09:45 Don't Fully Automate
10:33 Wrap-Up
The Edward Show. The #1 search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
Edward Sturm on Grokipedia - https://grokipedia.com/page/Edward_Sturm
#searchengineoptimization #seo #digitalmarketing #searchmarketing

E963: I sit down with TJ Robertson to discuss how AI search experiences are influencing SEO strategy, content creation, and brand visibility.
This conversation looks at how large language models, AI Overviews, and conversational search interfaces are becoming an additional layer of discovery that SEOs and founders need to understand.
We break down practical tactics, areas of disagreement, real experiments, and the difference between being cited by AI systems and actually being recommended within responses.
The discussion covers both opportunities and limitations, where AI introduces new dynamics, and how teams are adapting workflows.
Topics covered:
- The difference between ranking in search results and appearing inside AI-generated responses
- Whether AI search experiences will complement or change traditional search behavior
- Hyper-specific content and how AI systems interpret granular queries
- The relationship between classic SEO fundamentals and generative engine optimization
- Citation vs recommendation and why that distinction matters for conversions
- Bottom-of-funnel content strategies that perform across both search and AI contexts
- Parasite properties, secondary sites, and long-term visibility assets
- Tracking prompts vs tracking keywords and the current limitations of measurement
- Using branded content, FAQs, and reviews to shape how AI systems understand a company
- Content templates that tend to get surfaced inside AI responses
- Claude workflows and building a structured brand knowledge base for content creation
- The role of directories, foundational links, and early authority when starting from zero
- Where social platforms influence AI visibility and where they appear to have little impact
- Publisher monetization challenges and potential adaptations as AI summaries become more common
- Common misconceptions and speculative GEO advice circulating in the industry
We also discuss failures, experiments that did not work, and areas where the industry still lacks clarity - including how much training data matters compared to real-time search retrieval.
If you work in SEO, content, SaaS, or growth, this episode offers a practical look at what the generative engine optimization landscape looks like as it continues to evolve.
If you enjoyed the episode, subscribe and follow the show. New episodes are published daily.
⭐️ TJ Robertson on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tj-robertson-seo/
⭐️ TJ Robertson on 𝕏 - https://x.com/SeoRobertson/
⭐️ TJ Robertson on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@TJRobertsonDigital
⭐️ TJ Robertson on Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/tjrobertsondigital/
⭐️ TJ Robertson on TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@tjrobertson52
⭐️ TJ Robertson's Agency - https://tjrobertson.com/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 17 Years in SEO
00:29 Starting an AI-First SEO Agency
01:35 SEO vs GEO
03:20 Ranking in AI
04:54 How Fast to Publish
07:03 180-Day Playbook
09:15 Tracking LLM Visibility
10:09 Biggest LLM Citation Mistake
13:16 Parasite Properties & Second Sites
16:42 Content Templates That Win in LLMs
19:13 Fact Density, Brand Voice, & Brand Ambassadors
32:22 Reviews, Press Releases, and Branded Content
40:19 Branded FAQs
42:08 FAQ Hub Pages to Control the Narrative
44:02 AI SEO Opportunity
44:50 Setting Up Claude as a Brand Ambassador
46:50 Claude AI SEO Content Workflow
49:27 Images That Convert
54:20 Opus 4.6, Claude Cowork, and AI Agents
56:29 Vibe-Coded SaaS Strategy
59:36 The Skill SEOs Need
01:02:05 GEO Hot Takes: Schema Hype, "Post Everywhere," and Citation Obsession
01:05:31 Zero-Click Search
01:08:59 Rebuilding Visibility from Zero
01:13:22 Biggest SEO Failures & GEO Wins
01:19:41 Training Data vs Query Fan-Out
01:21:26 Wrap-Up
The Edward Show. The #1 search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#generativeengineoptimization #answerengineoptimization #searchengineoptimization #digitalmarketing