The Edward Show

1024: An experienced SEO practitioner and an AI search founder debate what gets a brand surfaced inside large language models like ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini.
The conversation starts with a core disagreement: is generative engine optimization just an extension of SEO, or is it a fundamentally different discipline? From there, it expands into how AI systems actually produce answers, what "query fan-out" means in practice, and if most traditional SEO frameworks may not translate cleanly into AI-driven environments.
This episode breaks down how both sides approach the problem in the real world - one focused on ranking and retrieval, the other on shaping how AI models understand brands, categories, and decisions.
Topics covered:
 - The difference between SEO and generative engine optimization (GEO/AEO)
 - What "query fan-out" is and how AI decomposes a single prompt into many searches
 - When AI does not search at all - and what that means for visibility
 - The role of awareness, consideration, and conversion in AI-driven journeys
 - If most AI influence happens before any citation or click
 - How LLMs decide which brands to mention (and which to ignore)
 - The relationship between search rankings and AI-generated answers
 - Whether optimizing for subqueries is practical or scalable
 - The concept of "information gain" and if original research matters more than summaries
 - Auditing how AI currently perceives your brand
 - The role of reputation signals like reviews, Reddit, and third-party content
 - If traffic and rankings may be the wrong metrics for AI visibility
 - The risks of scaling content purely to match query variations
 - How brand positioning, content, and reputation interact inside AI systems
 - Tactical approaches to getting included in AI-generated recommendations
 - The limitations of LLMs, including reliance on consensus and susceptibility to weak signals
 - Differences between platforms like ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity, and Gemini
 - Whether tactics like schema, markdown, or llms.txt actually matter
 - How new brands can break into AI results without existing authority
 - The long-term question: are LLMs search engines, or something fundamentally different?
This is a detailed, back-and-forth debate with real disagreement, practical examples, and a focus on how things work today.
If you work in SEO, content, SaaS, or growth, this will challenge how you think about visibility and influence in AI systems.
⭐️ Tom Rudnai's Dark AI Report - https://demand-genius.com/resource/dark-ai-and-what-actually-drives-aeo-influence/
⭐️ Tom Rudnai on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-rudnai-0539b6151/
⭐️ Demand-Genius - https://demand-genius.com/
⭐️ David Quaid on 𝕏 - https://x.com/DavidGQuaid
⭐️ David Quaid on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidquaid/
⭐️ David Quaid's agency - https://primaryposition.com/
🚀 Edward's SEO Articles - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/search-engine-optimization/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 GEO vs SEO Explained
01:18 Meet Tom and David
03:30 Research Shows AI Rarely Searches
04:54 Buyer Journey Prompt Stages
10:20 Complexity Changes GEO Strategy
13:27 Prompt Is Not the Query
16:23 Query Fan Out Predictability
20:48 Authority and Brand Signals
25:49 If SEO Metrics Mislead in GEO
28:48 Hacking Lists vs Real Influence
37:17 Do LLMs Need Google Lists
39:18 Testing Fast Indexing Effects
41:14 Iceberg Not Funnel
42:24 Make Visibility Inevitable
43:34 Information Gain Ladder
46:42 How LLMs Learn Brands
54:00 Perplexity Versus LLMs
59:11 Auditing AI Perception
01:09:05 Measuring Visibility Influence
01:13:06 Markdown For AI Context
01:15:53 Schema Skepticism
01:19:48 AI As Influence Channel
01:21:19 LLMs TXT Debate
01:23:53 Retrieval Versus Training
01:25:44 Reddit And Citations
01:29:37 Creating Category Terms
01:32:21 Credibility Signals
01:41:29 Prompting And Variability
01:42:50 Funnel Consistency Findings
01:44:59 Model Landscape Shifts
01:49:29 Advice For New Sites
01:52:56 Gaming AI Recommendations
02:02:26 Model Differences And Wrap
02:03:26 Final Thanks And Links
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#generativeengineoptimization #answerengineoptimization #searchengineoptimization #digitalmarketing

E1023: How Google Discover works and why it can outperform traditional SEO by a massive margin.
Google Discover isn't driven by search queries. It's driven by attention. If you understand how to stop the scroll, you can unlock traffic levels that most publishers never reach.
This episode is based on insights from Guilhem Chauvin, along with real-world experience publishing daily content and testing what actually gets clicks.
We cover the key differences between SEO and Discover, why most content fails in the Discover feed, and what you need to change if you want consistent traffic from it.
What you'll learn in this episode:
- Why Google Discover is not SEO and how the algorithm really works
- The importance of "stopping the scroll" vs. answering search queries
- How Discover is more similar to TikTok than Google Search
- Why your title matters more than your content in Discover
- How to write headlines that increase click-through rate from 2% to 14%
- The role of images and how they impact performance
- Why stock photos kill your traffic and what to use instead
- How audience signals determine whether your content gets distributed
- Why publishing more content can actually reduce your traffic
- The "sniper approach" to getting millions of clicks with fewer articles
- What changed in the latest Discover updates and what it means for publishers
We also talk about:
- How to combine SEO and Discover strategies effectively
- Why engagement signals matter across both Discover and search
- The importance of building an audience that already trusts your content
- Why having something to sell (product, SaaS, or service) makes your traffic more valuable
If you're a publisher, SEO, or content creator, understanding Google Discover can completely change how you approach content.
⭐️ The thread - https://x.com/GuilhemChauvin/status/2046855653554110626
⭐️ Google Discover's New Rules, March Core Update Fallout & AI Content Penalty Risks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfno63QEiQQ
🚀 Edward's SEO Articles - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/search-engine-optimization/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Why Discover Wins
00:36 Secret 1 Discover Not SEO
01:27 Secret 2 Audience Clicks Rule
02:33 Secret 3 Headlines That Hook
03:37 Secret 4 Scroll Stopping Images
04:18 Secret 5 Audience Signals First
06:15 Secret 6 Sniper Not Volume
07:21 Updates Volatility Opportunity
08:12 Monetize Beyond Traffic
08:39 Course Testimonial Pitch
09:43 Wrap Up Credits Goodbye
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#googlediscoveroptimization #searchengineoptimization #seo #googlediscover

E1022: Patrick Stox of Ahrefs breaks down what actually matters in SEO right now and what doesn't.
We cover a wide range of topics, from technical SEO and internal linking to AI content, programmatic SEO, and the growing conversation around GEO and large language models. Patrick shares practical insights from working on some of the largest websites in the world and building SEO tools used by thousands of companies.
This conversation focuses on separating signal from noise. There are a lot of tactics being pushed in SEO today that sound convincing but don't move rankings. Patrick explains where people are wasting time and what drives results.
Topics we cover:
- Why many common SEO beliefs are wrong
- Subdomains vs subfolders and why it usually doesn't matter
- The truth about redirects and how much value they pass
- Why SEO is just one part of a larger marketing system
- What "good content" actually means in practice
- When technical SEO matters and when it doesn't
- Super useful Ahrefs features and workflows
- The real role of internal linking and how most sites get it wrong
- How to think about authority beyond domain rating
- Why keyword volume can be misleading and what to look at instead
- How to approach content strategy from scratch
- What small businesses should do to show up in AI systems
- The reality of AI-generated content and when it fails
- Programmatic SEO: what works and what breaks sites
- Why scaling content too fast can backfire
- What causes rankings to drop after initial growth
- The importance of reclaiming lost links and redirects
- When to redirect vs let pages 404
- Why schema and LLM.txt are overhyped
- How SEO tools and audits can lead people in the wrong direction
- What Patrick would do if starting a site from zero
If you work in SEO, content, or growth, this will help you focus on what moves rankings and avoid spending time on things that don't.
⭐️ Patrick Stox on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickstox/
⭐️ Patrick Stox on 𝕏 - https://x.com/patrickstox
⭐️ Use Ahrefs - https://ahrefs.com/
🚀 Edward's SEO Articles - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/search-engine-optimization/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Meet Patrick Stox
00:54 Unpopular SEO Takes
01:49 Redirects Pass Value
02:18 GEO Is Bigger Than SEO
03:16 Small Business GEO Playbook
06:09 Tech SEO Threshold
07:24 Hreflang Costly Mistakes
09:07 Authority And Internal Links
14:57 Competing With Giants
16:56 Word Count And Writing
19:12 IBM Topic Hub Strategy
22:31 Internal Linking Done Right
26:18 SEO Myths And LLMs
27:08 Markdown Versions Debate
31:03 Ahrefs Features And Agent A
33:37 Traffic Potential Over Volume
35:06 Future Of Publishers
39:30 Growing A Site From Zero
41:31 Local PR Links
43:11 Content Planning Workflow
44:36 Smart SEO Automation
50:45 Programmatic SEO Risks
01:01:13 Defining Content Quality
01:06:18 Testing And Iteration
01:10:39 Schema Myths Debunked
01:15:34 Biggest SEO Wins
01:19:13 Killing LLMs.txt Hype
01:22:35 Wrap Up And Where To Follow
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#searchengineoptimization #seo #ahrefs #digitalmarketing

E1021: A simple SEO strategy built around Google's "People Also Ask" questions - and how to turn them into a system for building topical authority, generating consistent traffic, and driving real conversions.
Most marketers either ignore these questions or treat them as an afterthought. This episode shows how to structure them into a scalable content framework that not only ranks, but also feeds authority into your highest-value pages.
The process is straightforward, but the leverage comes from how you connect everything together: question pages, internal links, and bottom-of-funnel landing pages.
What you'll learn:
- How to find real "People Also Ask" questions directly from Google
- Why you should start with a small set of questions instead of scaling too fast
- How to generate clean, concise answers and refine them for your brand voice
- How to structure an FAQ hub and individual question pages for SEO
- Why these pages are easier to rank than traditional content
- How to identify which pages are gaining traction and expand them
- How to use internal linking to pass authority to commercial pages
- What "satisfied clicks" are and why they matter for SEO performance
- How to turn informational traffic into leads using simple calls to action
- Why you still need backlinks to support long-term growth
- How to avoid creating an unnatural authority profile
This strategy is especially useful if you're building a newer site or trying to grow traffic in a competitive niche without relying entirely on backlinks.
If you apply it correctly, you end up with a network of pages that generate their own authority and continuously support your most important pages.
⭐️ E902 - The 5-Minute SEO Hack: Turn 'People Also Ask' Into Instant Topical Authority - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHFrWBzg9c4
⭐️ Find People Also Ask questions - https://alsoasked.com/
⭐️ Turn People Also Ask Questions Into Easy Traffic, Authority, and Sales - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/people-also-ask-seo-traffic-authority-sales/
⭐️ The SEO Colonies Strategy: Turn One Ranking Page Into Dozens - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/seo-colonies-strategy-turn-one-page-into-dozens/
🚀 Edward's SEO Articles - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/search-engine-optimization/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 People Also Ask Power
00:37 Collect PAA Questions
01:43 AI Answers Workflow
02:09 Build FAQ Hub Pages
03:35 Get Indexed And Rank
04:20 Funnel Authority To Money Pages
06:29 Colony Linking Strategy
07:53 Backlinks And Balance
08:53 Wrap Up
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#searchengineoptimization #seo #growthhacking #digitalmarketing

E1020: If you're early in your SEO career and feel like you're constantly bouncing between conflicting advice, this episode is for you.
A 22-year-old working at an agency asked a simple but important question:

"What would you do if you had to start over today?"
This episode breaks down a practical, no-theory answer.
Not a perfect plan. Not a motivational speech.

A real approach for someone working full-time, tired after work, and serious about getting better.
What we cover:
- Why most SEO advice feels inconsistent (and why it's not because SEO keeps changing)
- The core principles of SEO that have stayed the same for years
- How to filter good advice from bad without relying on opinions
- Why watching more videos isn't the same as learning
- The fastest way to build real SEO skill (not just knowledge)
- Why "selling with SEO" teaches you faster than anything else
- What to build on the side (SaaS, ecommerce, or services)
- The difference between ranking pages and generating revenue
- Which SEO career path actually leads to stability and higher income
- Why "growth" is the best path if you want to learn everything
Key ideas from the episode:
- SEO fundamentals haven't changed as much as people think
- Most confusion comes from opinions, not constant algorithm shifts
- First principles matter more than tactics
- Experience comes from doing, not consuming content
- Avoid anything that feels clearly spammy
- Focus on keywords, relevance, authority, and user satisfaction
- Real learning happens when money or outcomes are involved
If you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or unsure what to focus on next, this episode is meant to give you direction without overcomplicating things.
Listen, take what's useful, and apply it.
That's where the progress happens.
E908 - Vibe Coding for SEO: Building Rankable Apps, Tools, and Revenue in Minutes - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cn03azU0GY
🚀 Edward's SEO Articles - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/search-engine-optimization/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Listener Question Setup
01:00 Wasif Email Read Through
02:41 SEO Basics Still Work
04:42 Avoid Spam And Shortcuts
05:37 Why Experts Disagree
08:16 Learn First Principles
09:51 Six Month Work Plan
12:21 Choose Growth SEO Path
14:26 Final Thoughts
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#searchengineoptimization #seo #digitalmarketing #marketing