The Edward Show

E982: I talk with Bas de Goei (Head of Marketing at Orb) about the SEO strategy that helped Orb rank #1 on Google for competitive keywords like "usage-based billing" - without relying on a large backlink profile.
Orb competes against companies like Stripe and other well-funded SaaS platforms. Despite this, their marketing team built strong organic traffic by focusing on topical authority, structured content clusters, and a highly iterative marketing approach.
Bas explains how Orb built an SEO system around cornerstone topics, how they identify high-value keywords before competitors do, and how SEO fits into a broader marketing engine that includes brand, paid acquisition, and data-driven customer journey analysis.
This conversation also explores how modern marketing teams are combining SEO with automation, AI agents, and signal-based marketing to identify buyers and move them through the funnel.
Topics covered:
- How Orb built SEO traffic after starting with almost no marketing infrastructure
- The cornerstone strategy used to build topical authority in a niche SaaS category
- Why many companies focus too much on backlinks instead of content depth
- How Orb identifies new keywords by listening to customers and watching market trends
- The role of "pricing content" in driving unexpected organic conversions
- Why informational traffic can still lead to high-value sales opportunities
- How multi-touch attribution reveals the real path customers take before converting
- How brand investments (billboards, PR, media appearances) influence organic rankings
- The strategy behind launching an exact-match domain to capture additional search traffic
- How Orb built a signal-based marketing engine using tools like Clay and Dreamdata
- Why Bas believes marketers should test aggressively and iterate quickly
- What the first 90-180 days of marketing would look like for a new startup today
Bas also discusses how the rise of AI pricing models is changing the SaaS industry and why pricing strategy is becoming one of the most important areas for software companies to invest in.
This episode is useful for:
- Founders building early SEO traction
- Marketing leaders responsible for growth and demand generation
- SaaS companies operating in competitive niches
- Anyone interested in topical authority and modern SEO strategy
Orb builds infrastructure for usage-based billing and pricing for modern software companies.
⭐️ Orb - https://www.withorb.com/
⭐️ Bas de Goei on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/bastiaandegoei/
💰 Edward's SEO Articles - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/search-engine-optimization/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 SEO Killer Intro
00:06 From Strategy to InsureTech
02:39 Joining Orb and SEO Spike
06:20 What Orb Does
09:41 Cornerstone SEO Basics
11:46 Clusters and AI Pricing
24:15 Exact Match Domain Play
27:24 Intent and Funnel Scoring
32:28 Pricing Pages That Convert
36:52 Common Marketing Mistakes
41:41 Brand Drives Rankings
45:53 X Ray Pricing Easter Egg
48:31 Measuring Pricing Experiments
55:17 Automation With Clay and Claude
01:01:45 First 90 Days Marketing Plan
01:05:18 Email Domains and Link Building
01:09:33 2026 Marketing Bets
01:14:12 Dream Data Explained
01:16:24 Wrap Up and Where to Find
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#searchengineoptimization #growthmarketing #chiefmarketingofficer #growthhacking

E981: Growth strategist Cody Schneider joins the show to discuss how AI agents are changing the way marketing, SEO, and product growth work.
Cody explains how he builds automated workflows that analyze Search Console data, refresh content, generate new articles, run marketing experiments, and even manage advertising campaigns. The conversation covers practical systems for scaling SEO, building internal data infrastructure, and using AI to automate repetitive work while maintaining high-quality output.
The episode also explores how content strategies are evolving in 2026, how to avoid common mistakes with AI-generated content, and why many marketers are focusing on the wrong tools instead of building repeatable systems.
Topics covered:
- Cody Schneider's SEO workflow using Search Console data as a feedback loop
- How to find easy keywords by analyzing page two and page three rankings
- Using AI agents to refresh content and increase organic traffic
- Why updating content can produce quick ranking improvements
- Building internal linking strategies that help pages rank faster
- Using AI to generate outlines and write content section-by-section
- The role of personal experience and transcripts in improving AI-generated content
- Why relevance to your product matters more than raw traffic
- Lessons from large sites like HubSpot that expanded content too broadly
- How to structure blog pages with TLDR sections and strong calls to action
- Tracking conversions from blog content using Google Tag Manager and Google Analytics
- Building dashboards to monitor organic growth and user behavior
- Why branded search is a key signal for sustainable SEO growth
- How Cody publishes large volumes of content while maintaining performance
- Experiments with publishing thousands of articles and managing them over time
- Strategies for avoiding common AI SEO pitfalls such as "mount AI" traffic spikes
- Why maintaining content and refreshing pages is critical for long-term rankings
- A practical link-building method using low-cost advertising and link exchanges
- The growing importance of citations for AI search results and answer engines
- How AI tools like ChatGPT and Claude choose sources for citations
- Why getting mentioned in authoritative sources can dramatically increase visibility in AI results
- Using newsjacking to capture search demand around emerging topics
- Examples of using trending news to drive traffic and awareness
- Why combining SEO, social distribution, and PR strategies creates stronger growth loops
The discussion also explores AI infrastructure and the systems Cody uses behind the scenes:
- Building data pipelines that combine Search Console, analytics, and advertising data
- Using data warehouses and semantic layers to organize marketing data
- Creating conversational analytics systems that allow AI to analyze performance data
- Using AI to categorize traffic, identify patterns, and generate reports
- Building agents that can run marketing workflows automatically
Cody also explains his philosophy around automation and AI agents:
- Why most people focus on tools instead of outcomes
- How to design agents that run marketing loops such as testing, measuring, and iterating
- The difference between general-purpose AI tools and custom automation systems
- Why many AI tools create unnecessary complexity
- How building small, focused agents can produce better results
The episode closes with a discussion about the future of marketing workflows and how AI agents may replace many repetitive roles in growth teams. Cody shares examples of agents that can manage email triage, generate marketing content, schedule posts, analyze campaigns, and run advertising experiments with minimal human input.
⭐️ Cody Schneider on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/codyxschneider/
⭐️ Cody Schneider on 𝕏 - https://x.com/codyschneiderxx
⭐️ Cody Schneider on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@codyschneiderx
⭐️ Cody Schneider's company, Graphed - https://www.graphed.com/
💰 Edward's SEO Articles - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/search-engine-optimization/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Intro
00:20 Google Search Console Refresh Loop
02:24 Automating With Data Pipelines
04:02 Relevance Over Volume
07:12 AI Article Production System
08:20 CTAs And Conversion Tracking
10:38 TLDR Above The Fold
11:36 Free Assets And Engagement Signals
15:32 Prompting For Quality Output
20:26 Agent Harnesses And Model Clones
25:18 Wins, Link Exchanges, And Case Study
29:43 Newsjacking For Fast Traffic
35:21 AEO Citation Strategy
38:49 Publishing Velocity On New Sites
41:38 Batch Publish Then Rewrite
43:21 Avoiding Mount AI Penalties
44:53 Keyword Selection At Scale
47:47 Brand Signals And Trust
49:51 Landing Pages Beat Blog Posts
52:42 Warehouse Ontology For Agents
59:10 Model Changes And Retooling
01:00:28 OpenClaw Hype Versus Outcomes
01:05:58 Build Personal Agents With Code
01:14:45 Reducing Hallucinations With Context
01:18:57 Cricut SVG Business
01:19:45 AI Speeding Up Sites
01:21:05 Long Cut SEO Wins
01:24:13 Safe SEO Experiments
01:26:09 Marketing Mix Stability
01:27:45 Social Algorithms And Slop
01:31:38 Short Form Versus Long
01:37:15 LinkedIn Video Playbook
01:39:52 From Idaho To Growth
01:45:32 Cloud Code Workflow Alpha
01:50:52 Agents And The Future
01:51:50 Where To Find Cody
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#growthhacking #searchengineoptimization #growthmarketing #digitalmarketing

E980: There were some technical issues during the recording, but the information Alejandro shared was so FIRE, I couldn't deny it from the world.
Hope the technical issues don't get in the way of you enjoying this ep.
Alejandro Meyerhans joins the show to talk about how Google rankings actually work today. The conversation covers NavBoost, link graphs, user behavior signals, the Google API leak, and how AI is changing the way SEOs build tools and analyze data.
Alejandro explains how modern SEO is less about isolated tactics and more about understanding how different signals combine: backlinks, brand authority, user engagement, topical depth, and content effort. The discussion also looks at how AI is allowing individuals to build internal tools that previously required large development teams.
The episode is a mix of practical advice, experiments, and observations from real SEO work.
Topics covered:
- What "Unicorn Clicks" are and why Google values them
- How NavBoost measures user satisfaction and engagement signals
- Why links still matter and how to think about a modern link graph
- The difference between links that pass real value and links that get ignored
- What the Google API leak revealed about ranking systems
- How Google evaluates "content effort" and informational gain
- Why brand signals and author entities are becoming more important
- The role of seed sites and authority signals in link building
- How referral traffic from backlinks can influence topical relevance
- When digital PR works and when it stops moving rankings
- Why some pages rank without obvious keyword optimization
- How AI tools are helping SEOs build custom analysis systems
- Practical ways small sites can compete without large budgets
- How to build linkable assets and free tools that attract backlinks
- What happens when sites publish large volumes of low-effort content
- Why on-page SEO still multiplies the impact of links and traffic
- Experiments showing how external traffic can influence rankings
Alejandro also discusses how someone starting from zero can approach SEO without expensive tools or large link building budgets. The focus is on building useful resources, improving high-value pages, and understanding how Google interprets user behavior.
⭐️ Get backlinks from Alejandro - Use code EDWARDBUILDS for 15% off your first order - https://getmelinks.com/
⭐️ Alejandro Meyerhans on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexmeyerhans/
⭐️ Alejandro Meyerhans on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@alexmeyerhansseo
⭐️ Alejandro's first time on the pod - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SVpRAE9t40
💰 Edward's SEO Articles - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/search-engine-optimization/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 AI Changes Everything
00:52 Building Smarter Link Reports
03:38 Links for Google and LLMs
08:09 Seed Sites and Listicles
12:02 Link Graph Explained
15:54 Avoiding Algorithm Whiplash
23:06 API Leak and Patents
27:51 Content Effort Signal
32:22 PageRank and Linking Out
40:12 Footer Links and SpamBrain
42:10 Digital PR and Relevance
45:58 Low Budget Link Building
48:29 Source Authority Links
49:35 Healthline Link Spike
51:24 Natural Link Graph Mix
53:33 Free Tools First 90 Days SEO
57:15 Vibe Coding Platforms
59:51 AI For SEO Workflows
01:01:51 Bad SEO Advice Nuance
01:05:02 Future Authority Signals
01:08:44 Sites Hit Next Update
01:10:33 Traffic As Ranking Signal
01:14:01 Underrated Link Tactics
01:19:39 YMYL Ranking Strategy
01:27:42 One Thing Tomorrow
01:29:30 Navboost Quick Wins
01:31:36 Wrap Up
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#linkbuilding #backlinks #searchengineoptimization #digitalmarketing

E979: Google's recent updates have changed how link building works for local businesses. Exact match anchor text links that once helped rankings can now trigger serious problems. In this episode, Joy Hawkins explains what has changed and what local businesses should be doing instead.
Joy Hawkins runs Sterling Sky, one of the most well known local SEO agencies. She shares lessons from years of testing links, auditing sites, and watching how Google updates impact small business websites.
We discuss why some local business sites were wiped out by recent core updates, why anchor text links are now risky at scale, and what types of links still move rankings today.
This episode is a practical breakdown of modern local SEO link building and how to approach it safely.
Topics covered:
- Why exact match anchor text links are becoming dangerous
- How recent Google core updates have affected small business sites
- Why manual penalties are rare and algorithmic penalties are increasing
- How many links local businesses actually need to rank
- Why guest posting at scale can now backfire
- The link types that still work for local SEO
- Niche directories and industry-specific sites
- Award sites and why they are becoming more important in AI search results
- How AI Overviews are changing what signals Google surfaces
- Press releases and when they are still useful
- Why Reddit is becoming a long-term traffic and visibility channel
- The role of earned media and journalist mentions
- How social media traction can influence rankings
- What local businesses can do if they have almost no link building budget
- Common link building mistakes that lead to penalties
- What metrics actually matter when evaluating links
- Why domain authority metrics can be misleading
- How multi-location businesses should approach link building
This conversation focuses on long-term strategies that avoid risky tactics while still helping local businesses grow their visibility.
⭐️ Joy Hawkin's First Appearance on The Pod - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ9HZu4qFWY
⭐️ Joy Hawkin's Agency - Sterling Sky: https://www.sterlingsky.ca/
⭐️ Joy Hawkin's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/c/SterlingSkyInc
⭐️ Joy Hawkin's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joyhawkins/
⭐️ Local Search Forum - https://localsearchforum.com/
💰 Edward's SEO Articles - https://edwardsturm.com/articles/search-engine-optimization/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Do Links Still Matter?
00:48 Exact Match Anchor Text Link Risks
03:20 Core Updates Wiping Out Local Sites
06:17 Press Releases Without Anchors
07:43 Guest Post Link Decay
08:38 Disavows And Penalties
11:15 Local Pack Loophole
12:15 Niche Directories That Win
13:06 Awards For AI Visibility
17:23 Local News And Reddit
19:34 Reddit Strategy Timeline
21:57 YouTube Versus Reddit
23:40 Why Reddit Still Works
24:37 Digg Relaunch and Moderation
25:24 No Budget Link Building
28:41 Social Signals and SEO
29:44 Testimonial Link Tactic
30:51 Avoiding Link Penalties
33:04 Press Releases for LLMs
37:54 Multi Location Link Strategy
40:30 Repeatable Link System
42:47 Where to Follow and Goodbye
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#localseo #linkbuilding #searchengineoptimization #digitalmarketing

E978: One of the biggest questions in search right now is whether websites can scale rankings through content alone, especially in an era of AI-generated content and programmatic SEO. Do you actually need backlinks to keep growing in Google? Or can strong topical authority and internal linking be enough?
Edward Sturm sits down with SEO legend, David Quaid, to answer real questions from the SEO community.
David shares insights from years of hands-on SEO experimentation and discusses how Google's ranking systems may actually work behind the scenes. The conversation covers content scaling, internal authority flow, programmatic SEO, exact match domains, and how engagement signals may influence rankings.
This episode also explores how modern SEO differs from the early backlink-driven era, and why some websites can grow traffic rapidly even without active link building.
Topics covered:
- Whether websites can scale rankings without growing backlinks
- How topical authority works and how sites build it over time
- Why some programmatic SEO sites scale quickly without link building
- The role of internal linking and authority flow inside a website
- How click behavior and pogo-sticking may influence rankings
- Whether Google has site-wide quality scores
- Risks of large-scale AI content publishing
- How to expand into new niches without losing topical authority
- When to use separate pages for near-duplicate keywords
- Whether blogs should be on subdomains or subfolders
- How forums affect SEO authority
- Exact match domains and keyword domains in modern SEO
- Why some SEOs avoid buying backlinks entirely
- The relationship between user behavior signals and rankings
- How companies can structure their websites for long-term search growth
David also explains why real business relationships often produce stronger links than traditional link building campaigns, and why traffic flowing through a page may matter more than the perceived prestige of the site hosting the link.
The discussion includes practical examples from job boards, ecommerce platforms, SaaS companies, and content sites that have grown organic traffic through different strategies.
If you are working in SEO, building websites, or running an online business, this episode provides a detailed look at how experienced practitioners think about Google's ranking systems and where experimentation still matters.
About the guest:
David Quaid is an experienced SEO and growth strategist who has worked with startups and large technology companies across industries including cybersecurity, fintech, and SaaS. He is known in the SEO community for his practical experiments and deep technical understanding of how search ranking systems operate.
⭐️ David Quaid on 𝕏 - https://x.com/DavidGQuaid
⭐️ David Quaid on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidquaid/
⭐️ David Quaid's agency - https://primaryposition.com/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Community SEO Questions
00:28 Scaling Content Without Links
07:24 Programmatic SEO Examples
09:42 Machine Content Detection
15:38 Authority Shaping And Walls
19:49 User Signals Versus PageRank
23:19 Why David Doesnt Buy Links
26:18 Traffic Based Link Value
33:14 People Also Ask Strategy And Pivoting
37:11 New Index Reality
37:32 Matt Cutts Wisdom
38:30 Sitewide Quality Score
42:10 Folder Level Impact
44:25 Near Duplicate Keywords
50:38 Subdomain vs Subfolder For Blogs
53:33 Forums and Authority
57:51 Exact Match Domains
01:06:41 SEO Industry Outlook
01:13:18 Final Thanks and Wrap
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#searchengineoptimization #seo #pagerank #growthmarketing