The Edward Show

E1071: How does ChatGPT choose which brands to cite, and how much of that comes from Google's existing search ecosystem?
Zachary Long (Modern Humans AI) and SEO veteran David Quaid join the show for a clear, side-by-side conversation about "GEO vs SEO" and what influences visibility inside AI-generated answers and recommendations.
Along the way, they discuss how AI tools gather sources, what "real-time search" really means, and why many businesses are uncertain about whether AI is "indexing the internet" or borrowing from the systems that already do.
You'll hear two competing models:
- One view: AI is becoming the front-line "recommender," so brands need more helpful, topic-focused content that AI can pull into answers.
- The other view: AI systems still rely heavily on traditional search engines and their indexes, so if you're not discoverable in Google, you're not reliably discoverable in AI either.
Key topics covered
- GEO vs SEO: are these actually different "games," or mostly the same fundamentals under a new label?
- How AI assistants assemble recommendations (and why the list can change from person to person)
- What "real-time search" means inside ChatGPT-style tools (and what it doesn't mean)
- Why Google's index matters when AI tools fetch sources for answers
- Local search realities: proximity, reviews, and why "best near me" behaves differently than long conversational prompts
- Content strategy for expert businesses: answering specific questions, building topical coverage, and being cited in AI summaries
- The disagreement around "AI crawls and stores the whole web" vs "AI retrieves from search engines"
- Scaled content: what it is, why it's risky, and how it intersects with AI-generated publishing
Practical takeaways for business owners
- If you want to show up in AI answers, you need clear, specific content that matches the questions people actually ask.
- If AI tools are pulling sources from search engines, then basic SEO and discoverability still matter.
- For local businesses, proximity and your business listing presence often decide who gets surfaced first.
- Publishing more content is not automatically better; the goal is coverage that is genuinely useful and distinct.
⭐️ Modern Humans AI - https://www.modernhumans.ai/
⭐️ Zachary Long on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/zacklongofficial/
⭐️ David Quaid on 𝕏 - https://x.com/DavidGQuaid
⭐️ David Quaid on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidquaid/
⭐️ David Quaid's agency - https://primaryposition.com/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Geo vs SEO Explained
01:46 AI Search Is Dynamic
04:02 Where Recommendations Come From
05:08 Business Listings and Content Tiers
07:14 Useful Content for AI Answers
08:42 How LLMs Actually Work
12:28 Freshness and Google Data Moats
15:51 Social Signals and Reviews Debate
24:52 Real Time Search Clarified
28:25 SEO Still Powers AI Results
30:31 Critical Thinking and Terminology
32:11 AI Findability Basics
33:21 Google AI Overview Example
34:59 SEO Versus AI Discovery
38:36 Expert Content Signals
41:29 Structure Humans and Bots
43:16 How LLMs Process Text
45:39 Future of AI Search
48:54 Modern Humans AI Platform
53:07 Scaled Content Penalties
57:37 Wrap Up and Links
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#generativeengineoptimization #answerengineoptimization #searchengineoptimization #digitalmarketing

E1070: Breaking down the most extensive LocalBusiness schema test ever run - what it proves, what it doesn't, and why the results matter for local SEO and how businesses show up in ChatGPT.
Jake Hundley joins Edward Sturm and David Quaid to walk through a controlled schema experiment designed to answer a simple question: does LocalBusiness schema move the needle? The study tested performance across Google Maps, Google mobile, major search engines, and multiple LLMs. The headline result: LocalBusiness schema did not improve rankings in Google Maps or traditional search - but it showed a measurable impact in ChatGPT.
Key findings from the study
- LocalBusiness schema did not improve rankings in Google Maps or Google mobile results
- LocalBusiness schema did not improve performance in traditional search engines tested (Google/Bing/Yahoo discussed)
- No measurable impact in Gemini and Grok in this test setup
- Measurable improvement in ChatGPT visibility and position in results, reported with 90%+ confidence
- Reported lift included improved position in ChatGPT's recommended list and higher "share of voice" across the grid-based testing
What the study did differently than most "we analyzed millions of pages" posts
- Used a test group and a control group to reduce the chance that algorithm updates explain the outcome
- Ran a defined control period and test period, with steps to confirm crawling/indexing before measuring outcomes
- Documented methodology in detail and pre-reviewed it with multiple industry experts
- Focused specifically on LocalBusiness schema (non–rich snippet generating), not every schema type
What this does not prove
- It does not claim schema is a ranking factor for Google Maps or organic search
- It does not explain why ChatGPT appears to respond to schema in this case
- It does not prove results will generalize to all schema types, industries, or rich-result markup
- It does not suggest schema alone will make a business show up in ChatGPT if other signals are weak
Discussion topics in the episode
- Why LocalBusiness schema has long been assumed to help, and what the data shows instead
- The difference between correlation studies and controlled tests
- The "positions in LLMs" debate and how the study defines and measures placement
- Why relying on any single tactic (schema included) is risky without validation
- Practical guidance: when schema is easy to add, when it's oversold, and how to treat it like a minor technical baseline rather than a strategy
⭐️ Does Schema Markup Affect Rank and AI Recommendations? - https://evergrowmarketing.com/how-schema-affects-google-and-ai/
⭐️ Jake's Agency Discord - https://discord.gg/uvHRRRFVRD
⭐️ Jake's Podcast - The Agency Growth Podcast: https://everbrospodcast.com/
⭐️ r/agency Subreddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/agency/
⭐️ Jake Hundley on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jake.hundley.1
⭐️ Jake Hundley on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-hundley/
⭐️ Jake Hundley's agency - https://evergrowmarketing.com/
⭐️ David Quaid on 𝕏 - https://x.com/DavidGQuaid
⭐️ David Quaid on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidquaid/
⭐️ David Quaid's agency - https://primaryposition.com/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Introductions and Setup
00:45 Why Test Schema
01:31 Methodology and Review
02:33 Key Findings Overview
03:48 ChatGPT Impact Explained
06:35 Why Schema Might Help LLMs
08:06 Skepticism and Control
10:53 SEO Myths and GEO Hype
17:02 Criticisms and Rebuttals
21:34 Entity Resolution Debate
24:49 Is Schema Worth It
29:22 Why Meta Descriptions Fade
30:11 No Schema SERP Proof
32:40 SEO Tribal Mindsets
34:01 Why Schema Boosted Citations
36:30 ChatGPT Map Testing
40:32 Stats Confidence Thresholds
41:26 Will Users Bounce Back
43:39 Selling Schema Ethically
46:16 Local SEO Without Links
49:09 Backlinks Versus Relevance
52:34 Correlation Not Causation
55:38 Study Takeaways
56:30 Final Thanks And Outro
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#localseo #localsearchengineoptimization #schemaseo #seo

E1069: Search interest in SEO just hit a new all-time high.
For more than a decade, people have said SEO is dying. Every algorithm update. Every new platform. Every new shift in traffic. The narrative repeats.
But the data tells a different story.
I break down why search engine optimization is at its highest recorded interest level, what changed over the past 24 months, and why the AEO panic is now turning into regret for many companies.
We look at what actually happened when businesses:
- Fired their SEO teams
- Shifted entirely into "answer engine optimization"
- Chased short-term AI visibility
- Abandoned their core search foundations
Now many of them are realizing something important: AEO is not a replacement for SEO. It is built on top of it.
In this episode:
- The Google Trends data showing SEO at a new all-time high
- Why generative engine optimization and answer engine optimization are not replacing SEO
- How companies overcorrected when traffic dipped
- Why losing search traffic also hurts AI visibility
- How ChatGPT actually searches the web when answering questions
- How to see the exact queries AI models use
- Why new founders and creators are driving more demand for SEO
- How AI is bringing new, non-technical people into online business
- Google's official documentation confirming SEO still matters for AI search
- What the "regret phase" looks like for companies that dismantled their SEO foundation
I also explain why ranking in AI systems requires understanding:
- Search intent
- Relevance
- Authority
- Language alignment
If you want your brand recommended by AI tools, you need to understand how search works.
SEO is not dead. The businesses that understand even just its fundamentals are benefiting greatly.
⭐️ AEO regret - https://x.com/5le/status/2041536429549887517?s=46
⭐️ Ep 1047 - Google Says GEO Doesn't Exist… Here's What They're Not Telling You - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KxY5Z9tFCo
⭐️ Google directly saying GEO/AEO is just SEO - https://developers.google.com/search/docs/fundamentals/ai-optimization-guide
⭐️ Spencer Heckathorn's comment - https://x.com/mrhobbeys/status/2063625889577914502
⭐️ Glenn Gabe's comment - https://x.com/glenngabe/status/2063239072739369457
⭐️ Last year's "Interest in SEO Just Hit an All-Time High (And I'm Shocked)" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nlVG05vcjY
🚀 Edward's SEO Articles - https://freeseoknowledge.com/ 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 SEO Is Dead Myth
00:16 Google Trends Spike Revealed
01:14 SEO vs GEO Comparison
02:55 The AEO Panic Regret
04:43 ChatGPT Search Query Hack
06:24 Easier Than Ever to Build
07:05 Spencer's LLM Theory
08:41 Anonymous SEO Success
09:57 Google Fights GEO Disinformation
13:58 Closing Thoughts
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#searchengineoptimization #seo #generativeengineoptimization #answerengineoptimization

E1068: Breaking down a real-world ecommerce SEO test that answers a common question: if you have multiple product variations (size, color, quantity), is there anything "special" you should do?
The test looked at a simple canonical tag change and found a clear lift on variation pages, without hurting the main product pages.
What you'll learn
- How canonical tags affect indexing and rankings when product pages are very similar
- A tested approach for handling product variation URLs, including parameter-based variants
- What changed in the experiment, and why it likely helped Google crawl and index variant pages more consistently
- The measured results and what they mean in plain terms
- When this approach may or may not apply to your site
The experiment setup
- Many ecommerce sites have one main product URL and separate variation URLs
- Example main URL: /products/metal-water-bottle
- Example variation URLs: ?size=32oz, ?color=black
- Before the test, the main product page canonical was self-referential
- Before the test, each variation page canonical was also self-referential
- The issue: variation pages were not indexing consistently and weren't getting the traffic expected
- The change tested: the main product page canonical was updated to point to one primary variation (often the most popular)
- The variation pages stayed self-referential
Results
- Main product pages: no negative impact (overall inconclusive)
- Variation pages: positive result
- Best estimate: 22% uplift in organic traffic to variation pages
- Net effect: positive enough that the change was deployed more broadly
Practical takeaways
- Don't assume the generic "main" product page is always the best page for Google to rank
- Specific variation pages can match what people actually search for (size, color, material, model, quantity, use case)
- If searchers use modifiers, pages that directly represent those modifiers often deserve a clearer path to being indexed and ranked
A reasonable way to test this on your site
- Choose a product category where modifiers matter (size, color, material, model)
- Identify one primary variation you're comfortable treating as the canonical target
- Update the canonical on the main product page to point to that primary variation
- Keep variation pages self-referential unless you have a clear reason not to
- Track indexing consistency for variant URLs
- Track organic sessions to variant pages
- Track rankings for modifier queries
- Track conversions and revenue, not just traffic
Notes and limitations
- This won't fit every ecommerce setup
- Results depend on how many variants you have per product
- Internal linking structure can change the outcome
- Product lifecycle and catalog churn matter
- Platform behavior (how variants are generated and rendered) matters
⭐️ The test - https://www.searchpilot.com/resources/case-studies/canonicalising-to-product-variation-pages
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 SEO Variations Question
00:38 SearchPilot Test Setup
01:38 Canonicals Explained
02:27 Water Bottle URL Example
03:13 New Canonical Strategy
04:22 Results 22% Uplift
05:10 Revenue Impact Math
06:19 Bigger SEO Lesson
07:03 Does Rank and Rent Still Work
09:25 Wrap Up and Thanks
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#ecommerceseo #searchengineoptimization #technicalseo #seo

E1067: Most e-commerce founders believe they need more traffic.
In reality, most stores already have enough qualified visitors. They just fail to convert them.
In this episode, I sit down with David Schomer - former CPA, Amazon seller, founder, and now CEO of Build Grow Scale - to break down why most e-commerce sites waste organic and paid traffic, and what actually increases revenue.
We go deep into conversion rate optimization, SEO strategy in the AI era, Amazon data advantages, and the practical changes that move the needle.
If you run a Shopify store, sell on Amazon, or are building any online brand, this episode will help you rethink where your growth is really coming from.
What we cover:
- Why "more traffic" is often the wrong goal
- The simple homepage mistake that costs sales
- Why putting your phone number at the top of your site builds trust
- How to reduce buyer risk and increase conversions
- Using customer service emails to improve product pages
- Why FAQs and sizing charts matter more than most founders realize
- How Amazon PPC data can improve your Shopify SEO
- The return of the blog and when top-of-funnel content actually works
- Bottom-of-funnel SEO and targeting high buyer intent searches
- How AI tools like Claude are changing how founders analyze data
- Finding wasted SaaS spend inside your own P&L
- Why mobile optimization is still a major issue in 2026
- What e-commerce brands should steal from Amazon reviews
- The 30-minute audit any founder can do today to improve conversions
David also shares:
- How he built and sold Amazon brands
- What separates profitable stores from struggling ones
- How to think about cross-sells and upsells strategically
- What he's seeing with AI-driven search and new ad platforms
This is a tactical episode focused on practical improvements.
If you are serious about building a profitable e-commerce business, watch this all the way through.
⭐️ Build Grow Scale website - https://buildgrowscale.com/
⭐️ David Schomer on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-schomer-b08a0a41/
⭐️ Build Grow Scale on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/buildgrowscale
⭐️ Build Grow Scale on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BuildGrowScaleEcommEducation
⭐️ Firing the Man podcast - https://firingtheman.com/
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/
00:00 Meet David Schomer
00:36 From Finance to Ecommerce
03:26 Amazon First Success
05:26 Stop Wasting Traffic
06:38 FAQs That Reduce Risk
07:25 AI Mining Support Emails
09:00 Claude Connections Workflow
10:52 QuickBooks Cost Cutting
15:39 Website Trust Basics
17:32 Upsells and AOV Growth
19:47 Amazon Data for SEO
21:34 Blog SEO Makes Comeback
24:36 Answer Questions Like Sales
26:31 AI Search Conversion Path
28:47 ChatGPT Buyer Journey
29:45 Blog SEO Comeback
30:36 Complex Products Need Content
34:17 Bottom of Funnel SEO Focus
38:38 Buyer Intent Keywords
41:13 Paid vs Organic Balance
46:16 Evergreen SEO Value
47:39 CRO Mobile Pitfalls
51:58 ChatGPT Ads Testing
55:06 Amazon Reviews Playbook
57:29 30 Minute Fixes
58:48 Wrap Up And Links
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/
#ecommerceseo #searchengineoptimization #digitalmarketing #dropshipping