The Edward Show

E1198: Do nofollow backlinks boost Google rankings? I walk through findings from Rand Fishkin, Kyle Roof, and Joy Hawkins, plus an AI search study that challenges the idea that nofollow links have no SEO value.
The practical takeaway: look beyond the link attribute. Pay attention to whether the linking page ranks on Google and attracts organic traffic.
In this episode:
- Google's 2019 change: Google shifted from ignoring nofollow links as ranking signals to treating nofollow, sponsored, and UGC attributes as hints about which links to consider or exclude.
- Rand Fishkin's experiments: Two tests pointed nofollow links from 55 and 42 websites at target pages. I cover the ranking gains and the unexpected result after participants removed the links: rankings kept improving.
- Kyle Roof's two criteria: The linking page ranks well on Google AND gets organic clicks. I explain how these criteria shaped Joy Hawkins' follow-up tests.
- Joy Hawkins' results: Joy added a nofollow link from a Local Search Forum page that already ranked and attracted traffic. The next day, her target page ranked AND a YouTube video that she had embedded on the target page ALSO ranked. She then reported positive ranking effects in additional tests.
- Nofollow links from major websites: I discuss Link Rush's reports of ranking improvements, faster indexing, and greater brand visibility after receiving nofollow links from the BBC and GOV.UK, plus the additional links and client trust those mentions attracted.
- Backlinks and AI search: A Semrush study with Kevin Indig examined 1,000 domains across five AI platforms. Nofollow backlinks showed a slightly stronger correlation with AI mentions than follow backlinks.
- A possible explanation for the AI findings: Platforms such as Reddit, Wikipedia, and Quora use nofollow links and frequently appear in AI answers.
- What this means for link building: Evaluate the source page, its rankings, its traffic, and its audience before dismissing a backlink because it carries a nofollow attribute.
These experiments and reports challenge the blanket claim that nofollow backlinks are worthless. They also give you specific criteria for evaluating the next link you earn.
⭐️ Google's 2019 announcement on nofollow links - https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2019/09/evolving-nofollow-new-ways-to-identify 
⭐️ Rand Fishkin's nofollow experiments (#10) - https://seosherpa.com/seo-experiments/ 
⭐️ Joy Hawkins nofollow backlink tests - https://www.sterlingsky.ca/nofollow-links-impact-seo/ 
⭐️ Link Rush nofollow study - https://www.linkrush.co.uk/blog/do-nofollow-backlinks-help-seo-in-2026 
⭐️ Semrush nofollow AI search study - https://www.semrush.com/blog/backlinks-ai-search-study/ 
⭐️ Ep 1163 - The $50,000 Internal Linking Experiment: Links That Get Clicked Carry More Weight - https://youtu.be/biy8ILxTzqc 
⭐️ Ep 948 - Why Low-Authority Backlinks Can Outperform High-Authority Ones - https://youtu.be/1gCsGVu3Izg 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Do Nofollow Links Rank
00:16 Google Nofollow Update
01:35 Early Nofollow Experiments
02:31 Joy Hawkins 2024 Test
05:14 API Leak Engagement Signals
06:01 Big Brand Nofollow Wins
06:58 Nofollow Links For AI
07:32 Natural Link Profile Tips
08:16 Final Verdict And Advice
09:26 Podcast Milestone Outro
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#searchengineoptimization #linkbuilding #seo #backlinks

E1197: Elon Musk's Grokipedia went from 6.5 million monthly Google clicks in July to just 200,000. That's a 97% collapse in organic search traffic for xAI's entirely AI-written alternative to Wikipedia.
And despite Grokipedia earning backlinks from The New York Times, The Guardian, NPR, NBC News, The Verge, and other major publications, its rankings have fallen off a cliff.
I break down what happened to Grokipedia, the Google policies its AI content runs into, and the lessons every SEO needs to understand before scaling AI-generated content.
Here's what I cover:
1. Grokipedia's 97% SEO traffic collapse
- How Grokipedia reached 5.8 million monthly Google clicks by January 2026.
- Why traffic fell to 1.5 million in May, recovered to 6.5 million in July, and then collapsed to 200,000.
- Why major media coverage, powerful backlinks, and Elon Musk's influence haven't protected its Google rankings.
- Why early traffic growth doesn't guarantee long-term SEO success.
2. The Google policies Grokipedia runs into
- Google's scaled content abuse policy and its rules against mass-producing unoriginal content.
- Google's scraping policy and its restrictions on republishing existing information without substantial added value.
- Why Grokipedia's fully automated approach raises concerns under both policies.
- Google's October 1 AI content guideline changes and its explicit instructions to manually fact-check and review AI-generated content before publishing.
- Why using AI to fact-check AI doesn't satisfy the human-review standard Google describes.
3. Other explanations for Grokipedia's collapse
- Why users might trust human-edited Wikipedia more than an entirely AI-generated encyclopedia.
- How poor user signals and declining trust might contribute to falling rankings.
- How Google's AI Overviews compete directly with informational websites.
- Why Wikipedia itself has suffered a major decline in organic search traffic.
- Why we can't conclude that Google issued Grokipedia a penalty.
4. What Grokipedia's backlinks reveal
- Why most of Grokipedia's major press backlinks point to its homepage.
- How Wikipedia benefits from links pointing directly to its individual articles.
- Why building links to subpages, category pages, and content hubs matters.
- How site structure and internal linking distribute authority throughout a website.
5. Lessons for SEOs using AI content
- Why you need to manually review AI-generated articles, landing pages, and metadata before publishing.
- Why one-shot AI content often misses important aspects of search intent.
- How to use noindex until your AI content passes human review.
- Why you shouldn't mistake the initial traffic surge from scaled AI content for lasting success.
- Why I recommend keeping aggressive AI experiments separate from valuable, established websites.
- What Google says about recovery times after fixing serious SEO problems.
I also discuss three possible futures for Grokipedia: continued decline, Elon Musk publicly challenging Google, or xAI finding another purpose for its AI-generated encyclopedia.
The bigger lesson: If you're building a website for long-term organic traffic, don't sacrifice content quality and human oversight just to publish more pages.
⭐️ Grokipedia - https://grokipedia.com/ 
⭐️ Ep 1187 - Google Just Changed Its AI Content Guidelines (Unreviewed AI Is Now a Liability) - https://youtu.be/wxqf9J2Huu0 
⭐️ Ep 1192 - How Long Does SEO Take? Google Finally Shares the Real Numbers - https://youtu.be/sRZizu5mi_c 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Grokipedia Crashes
00:48 Why It Looked Promising
01:54 Traffic Spike Then Collapse
02:34 Scaled Content Abuse
04:20 Scraping Policy Violations
05:11 AI Content Review Warning
06:15 Other Causes and Rebound
08:07 SEO Lessons for Marketers
08:39 Link Authority and AI Surges
09:33 Risk Management and Recovery
10:42 Wrap Up
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#searchengineoptimization #seo #generativeengineoptimization #aiseo

E1196: Is GEO actually different from SEO, or is generative engine optimization simply SEO under a new name?
Paris Childress, host of The GEO Show, joins David Quaid for a heated debate about what gets brands recommended by ChatGPT, Google AI Overviews, Gemini, and other AI search engines.
Paris argues that GEO is brand marketing, not performance marketing. Its goal is brand visibility, mentions, citations, and recommendations, rather than rankings and organic clicks.
David disagrees. He argues that AI search uses traditional search indexes, query fan-outs, and the SEO fundamentals marketers have relied on for decades.
Neither backs down as they challenge each other's definitions, tactics, and evidence.
What we cover:
1. Is GEO different from SEO?
- Why Paris calls GEO a separate marketing discipline.
- Why David defines SEO as search visibility, not just traffic.
- Whether different goals and KPIs make two disciplines different.
- What each guest actually does to get brands into AI answers.
2. How ChatGPT and AI search find brands
- How query fan-out turns prompts into multiple search queries.
- Why Google rankings and AI citations don't always match.
- How traditional search indexes influence AI recommendations.
- The disagreement over ranking positions versus AI visibility.
3. Backlinks, brand mentions, and reviews
- Why Paris prioritizes third-party brand mentions over links.
- David's argument that SEO already includes online reputation management.
- How G2 and Capterra reviews influence AI recommendations.
- Why listicles appear in AI answers and how search engines find them.
- Where PR distribution and press releases fit into SEO and GEO.
4. Does AI actually understand brand authority?
- Why David challenges the idea that AI independently evaluates brand trust.
- How search retrieval influences which sources AI cites.
- Why a highly visible review site isn't automatically trustworthy.
- What happens when AI repeats inaccurate information.
5. Measuring SEO and GEO results
- Why Paris tracks share of voice, mentions, and citations for GEO.
- Why David challenges the reliability of SEO attribution.
- Their disagreement over GA4, organic conversions, and revenue.
- Whether AI visibility and search traffic require different dashboards.
- Whether SEO still exists if Google makes AI Mode the default.
6. What marketers should actually do
- Identify the searches behind AI-generated answers.
- Make pages accessible to search crawlers.
- Earn coverage on the third-party sites AI retrieves.
- Understand when your own rankings matter and when other sites shape recommendations.
The central disagreement:
Paris says SEO and GEO share many tactics but have different goals.
David says those tactics, the search infrastructure, and the goal of visibility make GEO an extension of SEO.
⭐️ The GEO Show on YouTube - https://youtube.com/@getgeoforge 
⭐️ Paris Childress's platform, GEOforge - https://getgeoforge.com/ 
⭐️ The GEO Show on Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/bg/podcast/the-geo-show/id6805128323 
⭐️ The GEO Show on Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/313Ae4gFG1GqXv4YNWEARI 
⭐️ Paris Childress on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/parischildress/ 
⭐️ Paris Childress on 𝕏 - https://x.com/parischildress 
⭐️ David Quaid on 𝕏 - https://x.com/DavidGQuaid 
⭐️ David Quaid on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidquaid/ 
⭐️ David Quaid on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DavidQuaid 
⭐️ David Quaid's agency - https://primaryposition.com/ 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Debate Setup GEO vs SEO
01:11 Paris Defines GEO Goals
03:08 David Says Same Discipline
06:06 Mechanics Training vs Retrieval
09:57 KPIs Powerlifting Analogy
11:36 Dashboards Visibility Metrics
14:20 Brand Mentions vs Links
18:28 ORM Argument SUV Analogy
22:33 G2 Reviews SEO Proof
28:38 Listicles and Query Fan Out
35:53 Press Releases and Citations
37:33 LLM Authority Misinformation
40:02 Budgets Brand vs SEO
40:55 Goals Versus Tactics
42:17 Same Work Different Labels
43:40 Defining SEO Outcomes
45:51 ROI And Attribution Fight
48:44 GA4 Limits And Opt Outs
54:01 Measuring GEO Without Clicks
55:38 Why SEO Still Gets Budget
57:21 Bing Tools For AI Visibility
01:03:57 Exact Match Domain Strategy
01:05:43 Wrap Up And Guest Plugs
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#generativeengineoptimization #answerengineoptimization #searchengineoptimization #seo

E1195: Does Google measure how much effort you put into your content? Google's Quality Rater Guidelines mention effort more than 100 times, and the 2024 Google API leak revealed an LLM-based metric called "content effort."
We're breaking down Cyrus Shepard's article, "Content Effort: The Google Ranking Feature Nobody Talks About," and what it reveals about the content Google might consider high quality.
Cyrus previously worked as a Google quality rater. He explains how Google evaluates effort, why writing longer articles doesn't count as more effort, and what separates valuable original content from thousands of nearly identical AI-generated pages.
We also examine an internal Google presentation from its antitrust trial that explains why user behavior matters so much for search rankings.
What you'll learn:
- Google's definition of content effort (effort doesn't mean word count, hours spent writing, or whether a human wrote the content instead of AI).
- The Google API leak: Two documented metrics, "contentEffort" and "ugcDiscussionEffortScore," that reference effort estimation. We don't know whether Google uses either metric in live rankings.
- How quality raters evaluate content: Google asks raters to assess effort alongside originality, talent, skill, and accuracy.
- Low-effort vs. high-effort AI content: Why generating 5,000 location pages with swapped city names differs from creating automated pages using proprietary data and authentic user reviews.
- Original research and firsthand experience: Why testing 10 protein powders and publishing your results creates more value than rewriting existing product descriptions.
- Why original photography, product demonstrations, screenshots, and custom visuals demonstrate effort and improve the usefulness of commercial pages.
- The problem with filler content: Why answering the searcher's question immediately matters more than burying the answer beneath hundreds of words of unnecessary background.
- User-generated content: Why detailed Reddit discussions with firsthand experiences provide more value than shallow threads with one-word replies.
- How Google told employees, "We do not understand documents. We fake it," and described learning from how users react to search results.
- User behavior and rankings: Why immediately satisfying search intent matters, especially when users otherwise return to Google's results.
Cyrus Shepard's two-minute content audit: 
1. Did you thoughtfully edit and organize the content so visitors immediately find what they need?
2. Did you add unique information, original research, observations, or perspectives that don't exist elsewhere?
3. Does the page show evidence of real work through photos, screenshots, testing methods, interviews, or firsthand experience?
4. Does the content go beyond information anyone could reproduce with a basic Google search?
5. Where appropriate, does the content include detailed discussion, evidence, and meaningful perspectives?
Examples covered:
- A collection of scraped recipes versus recipes personally tested and organized by taste.
- Thousands of nearly identical location pages versus automated movie recommendations backed by original user data.
- Generic "best X" listicles versus listicles supported by real testing, results, and original photography.
- A recipe that buries instructions under unnecessary history versus one that immediately explains how to cook the dish.
- A shallow Reddit thread versus a detailed discussion of hiking boots with real-world testing and experiences.
- A SaaS landing page for a room planner app that uses a custom image to demonstrate the product immediately.
Google isn't simply looking for content that took a long time to create, but instead evidence of useful work that makes the finished page more valuable to searchers.
And regardless of how much effort goes into your content, give visitors the answer they're searching for upfront.
⭐️ Cyrus Shepard's Content Effort Article - https://signal.zyppy.com/p/content-effort 
⭐️ Google 2016 Q4 Search All Hands - https://www.justice.gov/d9/2023-11/417516.pdf 
⭐️ Ep 807 - Link Building in 2025: First 10 Links, Linkable Assets & HCU Wins (w/ Cyrus Shepard) - https://youtu.be/TPEkoQnwErc 
⭐️ Ep 1056 - Backlinks Aren't Enough: How to Win Competitive SEO - https://youtu.be/1Pkfj_X7nHM 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Does Google Measure Effort
00:43 Quality Raters Explained
02:09 Google Definition of Effort
03:39 What Effort Is Not
04:00 Five High Effort Examples
05:43 Original Media and Testing
07:36 Cut the Fluff Upfront
08:09 Reddit and Discussion Depth
09:09 Google Watches Reactions
11:27 Two Minute Effort Audit
13:12 Wrap Up and Resources
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#searchengineoptimization #contentmarketing #seo #webdevelopment

E1194: Cold outreach is one of the most effective ways to build backlinks, earn media coverage, and get your content in front of the right people. But most outreach emails get ignored.
A Reddit user analyzed 6,337 cold emails and uncovered striking differences in reply rates based on email length, subject lines, follow-ups, and who receives the message.
I break down these findings, share advice from experienced link builders, and explain the cold outreach strategies I've personally used to get viral videos onto national television, earn coverage from major publications, and promote businesses.
What the data from 6,337 cold emails reveals:
- Emails under 100 words earned an 11.9% reply rate.
- Emails between 100 and 200 words earned just 1.9%.
- Emails over 200 words earned a 0.3% reply rate.
- The ideal email length fell between 60 and 90 words.
- One email earned a 4.1% reply rate. One follow-up increased that to 6.6%.
- Two follow-ups increased replies to 6.9%, with diminishing returns beyond that.
- Subject lines under 30 characters achieved an 83.7% open rate, compared to 69.5% for longer ones.
- Subject lines containing numbers performed particularly well.
- Tuesday and Wednesday outperformed Thursday and Friday.
How to get more replies to your link-building outreach:
- Personalize every message. Generic templates immediately signal mass outreach.
- Lead with something valuable to the recipient rather than asking for a favor.
- Keep subject lines short and make the first sentence immediately relevant.
- Find the right person. At larger companies, department heads and managers often make more sense than CEOs.
- Offer original research, useful statistics, corrections, or genuinely interesting content.
- Use broken links as an opportunity to suggest relevant replacement resources.
- Track positive replies rather than total replies to understand which offers work.
- Follow up once or twice rather than repeatedly chasing people.
- Use email tracking tools to understand whether recipients open your messages.
My own cold outreach experiences:
I've spent years pitching journalists, YouTubers, bloggers, and other content creators. I explain how I used concise, targeted outreach to get extraordinary results.
- 2012: My friends and I created a video where fake bodyguards and paparazzi convinced strangers in Times Square that an ordinary guy was a celebrity. I pitched the video on Reddit, reached the site's front page, and ended up on Good Morning America, The Today Show, and NBC's The Jeff Probst Show.
- 2009–2010: A crazy driving stunt video sat unnoticed on YouTube for a year. I pitched it to automotive publications, and Jalopnik featured it on its homepage for two days.
- 2018: We created an early blockchain video game and helped establish the play-to-earn genre. I reached out to major cryptocurrency YouTubers, and one of the largest channels covered our project.
The same principles apply to SEO link building.
Create something genuinely interesting, find people whose audiences care about it, and send concise, personalized messages explaining its relevance.
You don't need another generic guest posting template. You need a compelling reason for somebody to open your email, read your content, and share it.
⭐️ Reddit: What Makes Link Outreach Get Replies? - https://www.reddit.com/r/seogrowth/comments/1vqym2j/what_makes_link_outreach_actually_get_replies/ 
⭐️ Reddit: Breaking Into PR (6,337 Cold Emails Analyzed) - https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicRelations/comments/1u2f71l/breaking_into_pr_is_mostly_a_coldoutreach_problem/ 
⭐️ Short subject lines matter for newsletter open rates - https://read.first1000.co/p/things-matter-for-growing-a-newsletter 
⭐️ Times Square fake celebrity video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYU1a0lTTTw 
💎 Compact Keywords - My SEO Course - Get paying customers through SEO - Clear step-by-step video breakdowns - SEO templates to be copied and adapted for your products and services: https://compactkeywords.com/ 
00:00 Why Outreach Gets Ignored
01:10 Value First Link Building
02:01 Templates Kill Replies
03:39 PR Data on Email Length
05:13 Target the Right Person
05:55 Follow Ups and Subject Lines
07:23 Tracking Opens and Deliverability
07:59 Going Viral With Smart Pitches
11:00 Make It Easy to Share
11:43 Wrap Up
The Edward Show. Your daily search engine optimization podcast: https://edwardsturm.com/the-edward-show/  
#linkbuilding #backlinks #searchengineoptimization #seo