The Leader's Journey Podcast

Growth rarely happens in comfort. In this episode, Trisha and Mac continue their discussion of Peter Steinke's framework for healthy leadership and organizations by exploring the tension between comfort and challenge. They examine why leaders often rush to relieve discomfort, fix problems, or protect people from struggle, and how those instincts can actually undermine growth. Through practical examples from leadership, ministry, parenting, coaching, and personal development, they discuss how resilience is built when leaders create environments where people can stretch, struggle, and mature rather than simply stay comfortable.
 
Conversation Overview
 
Development Requires Struggle

Over-Functioning Creates Under-Functioning

Challenge Builds Capacity

Comfort Can Become a Trap

Questions Create Growth

Tension Is Necessary for Transformation

Move Toward Difficult Conversations

Growth Has a Cost

Comfort and Compassion Still Matter

Resources
 
How Your Church Family Works – Peter Steinke
Kathleen Smith - The Anxious Overacheiver

In this episode, Trisha and Mac begin their series on leadership responses to build health by exploring two foundational practices for leadership: focusing on self rather than others, and choosing integrity over unity. Together, they unpack how anxiety pushes leaders to become reactive, emotionally fused, and overly focused on managing other people's responses. They discuss the hard work of clarifying guiding principles, staying grounded in moments of tension, and leading from conviction instead of fear.
Conversation Overview
 
"Focus on self, not others" is foundational in emotionally healthy leadership

How leaders lose themselves when other people's reactions become the compass
Why integrity is not the same thing as selfishness
The importance of guiding principles during high-anxiety moments
How Jesus modeled clarity, boundaries, and differentiated leadership
Healthy systems need both individuality and connection

The relationship between integrity, boundaries, and emotional maturity

How anxiety spreads through systems — and how leaders can lower it instead of amplifying it
 
Resources
 
How Your Church Family Works - Peter Steinke
Kathleen Smith
Bowen Family Systems
Edwin Friedman - A Failure of Nerve

Do we love people by tolerating their terrible behavior? How do we stop demonizing people who get in our way? What about when I am the one who is sabotaging change?
In our conversation with Steve Cuss, author of Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs, we look at the reality of sabotage in the process of leading change. Because anxiety spreads in a group and because typically the most anxious person in the room holds the most power, managing ourselves in the face of sabotage is always the key to leadership survival.
We hope you'll listen in.
 
Conversation Overview
Anxiety: even more contagious than COVID
Does love mean I have to tolerate people's terrible behavior?
How do I stop demonizing people who get in my way?
Advantages of systems theory for leadership
Working our way out of double binds
Managing ourselves in triangles (and don't miss Steve's great definition of a triangle!)
 
About Steve
Steve Cuss is a multi-talented leader and also the pastor at Discovery Christian Church in Broomfield, CO.
Steve's Twitter feed is gold. Follow him @stevecusswords
You can also check out everything he's doing, including his podcast, at www.stevecusswords.com
His book is Managing Leadership Anxiety: Yours and Theirs.
 
Also mentioned on the podcast:
Generation to Generation by Edwin Friedman
The Family Crucible by Augustus Napier and Carl Whitaker

In this episode, Trisha and Nate talk about how to get the most out of a coaching relationship. They explore what makes coaching effective, why it requires active participation, and how clients can show up in ways that lead to real growth. From setting the agenda to asking better questions, they offer practical insights for both new and experienced coaching clients.
 
Conversation Overview
Coaching Requires Active Participation

Curiosity Over Expertise

Focus on Your Own Actions

Coaching is a Conversation

Finding Value in Required Coaching

 
Resources
 
The Leader's Journey Podcast: Being Coachable 
 
Nate Pyle - The Leader's Journey

*This episode was originally published in July, 2023. 
In this episode, we're joined by Dr. Chuck DeGroat to talk about the natural reactivity we have to anxiety. We've talked a lot about fight and flight, conflict and distancing, but we don't always add two other instinctive reactions: freeze and fawn. 
We may aspire to peace-making but we often settle for peace keeping and people-pleasing. When we can see our fawn response, we can stop hiding and courageously choose genuine connection instead.
Conversation Overview: 
Chuck's tweet that inspired this conversation
How does the fawn response mimic healthy connection while also undermining it?
How does the fawn response show up in leadership?
How do we connect the fawn response to anxiety?
What might we do instead of fawning?
References: 
Link to Chuck's Tweet
Chuck Degroat Website
https://twitter.com/chuckdegroat
@chuckdegroat on Threads
Janina Fisher 
The Fifth Discipline: The art and practice of the learning organization
Healing Developmental Trauma: How Early Trauma Affects Self-Regulation, Self-Image, and the Capacity for Relationship
The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable