The Leader's Journey Podcast

Resilience is often described as the ability to bounce back from adversity, but what if true resilience is about something much deeper? In this episode, Jim sits down with therapist, author, and speaker Chuck DeGroat to explore resilience through the lens of grace, healing, and spiritual formation. Together they discuss why resilience isn't about powering through hardship, but about allowing ourselves to be transformed by it through honest relationships, self-awareness, and the sustaining presence of God.
 
Dr. Chuck DeGroat is a pastor, therapist, spiritual director, speaker, and author whose work focuses on leadership, spiritual formation, trauma, and emotional health. Through his work, Chuck helps leaders integrate emotional health, faith, and authentic spiritual growth.
 
Conversation Overview
Rethinking what resilience really means
Grace as the foundation for lasting resilience
The role of community in healing and growth
Navigating suffering without losing yourself
Spiritual practices that cultivate resilience
 

Resources & Links
 
Healing What's Within 

When Narcissism Comes to Church 

Wholeheartedness 

Who You're Becoming - Releasing in October!

Chuck's Substack

Parenting has never come with more advice, more experts, or more pressure. But what if becoming a healthier parent has less to do with finding the perfect strategy and more to do with becoming a more grounded person? In this episode, Trisha Taylor is joined by Dr. Michael DeRuyter and Dr. Jenny Brown, the author of The Parenting Paradox,  to discuss the book and explore what family systems theory teaches about raising resilient children. Together they unpack the tension between caring deeply for our children while resisting the urge to over-function, over-protect, or define our success by our children's choices. Whether you're parenting young children, adult children, grandchildren, or simply navigating important relationships, this conversation offers a refreshing perspective on leading with clarity, connection, and thoughtful conviction.
 
Dr. Jenny Brown is a highly respected family therapist, educator and founder of the Parent Hope Project, a social enterprise dedicated to improving children's wellbeing by strengthening parents. Drawing on decades of clinical practice with the Family Systems Institute, Jenny supports parents, educators and clinicians to understand family dynamics and make meaningful, lasting change. She is the author of The Parenting Paradox and Growing Yourself Up about adult development and relationships. She is also the host of the Parent Hope podcast. 


 
Dr. Michael DeRuyter is a pastor, coach and consultant with The Leader's Journey. He has completed four years of postgraduate study at the Bowen Center for the Study of the Family, served as a research fellow studying family systems, and earned a certificate in systems thinking from Cornell University. Mike holds a Doctor of Ministry from Fuller Theological Seminary and has spent more than 15 years helping leaders, parents, and organizations apply Bowen Family Systems Theory to foster greater spiritual, emotional, and relational maturity.
 
Conversation Overview
 
-Parenting Begins with Your Own Growth
-Define Your Job Description
-Resist Anxiety, Not Connection
-Parenting and Technology
-Parenting in an Age of Endless Advice
-Preparing Children for Life Beyond You
 
Resources

Parent Hope Project
 
The Parenting Paradox: Loving Our Children by Giving Them Space to Grow - Jenny Brown  
 
Growing Yourself Up, 2nd Edition: How to bring your best to all of life's relationships - Jenny Brown
 
Bowen family systems theory in Christian ministry: Grappling with Theory and its Application Through a Biblical Lens - Jenny Brown, Lauren Errington
 
The Anxious Generation -  Jonathan Haidt

In the final installment of this series on healthy organizational systems, Trisha and Mac unpack the last three practices from Peter Steinke's work on strengthening an organization's "immune system." Together they explore why healthy leaders focus on process along with content, the entire system, not just symptoms, and direction, not just current condition. Through stories from ministry and organizational leadership, they show how these shifts help leaders move beyond blame, navigate discouragement, and create lasting health instead of chasing quick fixes.
Conversation Overview
Look Beyond Symptoms
Avoid the Trap of Blame
Treat Symptoms Like Smoke Alarms
Focus on Direction More Than Condition
Stay the Course Through Discouragement
Lead with Conviction, Not Anxiety
Practice Before You Need It

Resources

How Your Church Family Works - Peter Steinke
Healthy Congregations - Peter Steinke
Strengthening Your Leadership Immune System - Episode One
Growing Through Challenge Over Comfort - Episode Two
Find Us On YouTube

Growth rarely happens in comfort. In this episode, Trisha and Mac continue their discussion of Peter Steinke's framework for healthy leadership and organizations by exploring the tension between comfort and challenge. They examine why leaders often rush to relieve discomfort, fix problems, or protect people from struggle, and how those instincts can actually undermine growth. Through practical examples from leadership, ministry, parenting, coaching, and personal development, they discuss how resilience is built when leaders create environments where people can stretch, struggle, and mature rather than simply stay comfortable.
 
Conversation Overview
 
Development Requires Struggle

Over-Functioning Creates Under-Functioning

Challenge Builds Capacity

Comfort Can Become a Trap

Questions Create Growth

Tension Is Necessary for Transformation

Move Toward Difficult Conversations

Growth Has a Cost

Comfort and Compassion Still Matter

Resources
 
How Your Church Family Works – Peter Steinke
Kathleen Smith - The Anxious Overacheiver

In this episode, Trisha and Mac begin their series on leadership responses to build health by exploring two foundational practices for leadership: focusing on self rather than others, and choosing integrity over unity. Together, they unpack how anxiety pushes leaders to become reactive, emotionally fused, and overly focused on managing other people's responses. They discuss the hard work of clarifying guiding principles, staying grounded in moments of tension, and leading from conviction instead of fear.
Conversation Overview
 
"Focus on self, not others" is foundational in emotionally healthy leadership

How leaders lose themselves when other people's reactions become the compass
Why integrity is not the same thing as selfishness
The importance of guiding principles during high-anxiety moments
How Jesus modeled clarity, boundaries, and differentiated leadership
Healthy systems need both individuality and connection

The relationship between integrity, boundaries, and emotional maturity

How anxiety spreads through systems — and how leaders can lower it instead of amplifying it
 
Resources
 
How Your Church Family Works - Peter Steinke
Kathleen Smith
Bowen Family Systems
Edwin Friedman - A Failure of Nerve