The Leader's Journey Podcast

In this episode of The Leader's Journey, Mike and Trisha welcome Barbara Laymon for a conversation about triangles in Bowen family systems theory. They explore how triangles are dynamic relationship patterns that influence families, workplaces, and congregations, often carrying tension from one relationship into another.
 
Through biblical stories, personal experiences, and examples from organizational life, the conversation examines how family patterns can follow us into other relationships, how our position in a triangle shapes our reactions, and how systems thinking can help us respond with greater maturity.
 
Conversation Overview
Understanding Triangles in Bowen Family Systems Theory

How Family Roles and Patterns Carry Into Other Relationships

Biblical Examples of Triangles and Sibling Rivalry

Emotional Estate Planning and Managing Family Anxiety

Changing Our Own Responses Within Relationship Patterns

Recognizing Triangles in Workplaces and Congregations

Gossip, Exclusion, and the Spread of Anxiety

Applying Systems Thinking to Relationships

 
Resources
 
https://theleadersjourney.kit.com/triangles-self-reflection
 
https://www.thebowencenter.org/faculty-bios/barbara-laymon

In this episode of The Leader's Journey, Trisha, Mike, and Kathleen discuss individuality and togetherness through the lens of Bowen family systems theory. They explore how these forces shape how people function within families, churches, organizations, and other groups. The conversation examines the difference between true individuality and simply reacting against a group, how anxiety and pressure influence group behavior, and how leaders can create space for people to bring their own thinking into the system.

Conversation Overview

Individuality, Togetherness
Individualism vs Individuality
Reactivity and Group Pressure
Anxiety and Systems
Getting "On the Same Page"
Inviting Individual Thinking
Leadership and Responsibility
Thinking Outside Your Own Mind
Creativity and Flexibility in Groups

Resources

The Leader's Journey Team Building Exercises

Everything Isn't Terrible: Conquer Your Insecurities, Interrupt Your Anxiety and Finally Calm Down

True to You: A Therapist's Guide to Stop Pleasing Others and Start Being Yourself

The Anxious Overachiever substack

Church Leaders Facing Significant Change Program with Edie Lenz

In this episode, Jim and Trisha explore the tension between growth, organizational culture, and human flourishing. They examine how the pace of growth can create burnout, why leaders need to think systemically about the impact of their decisions, and what it might look like to intentionally build organizations around sustainable cultures rather than simply getting bigger.
 
Conversation Overview
Growth and Flourishing
Organizational Mental Models
Growth and Burnout
Culture and Organizational Health
The Pace of Growth
Church Planting and Growth
Leadership and Organizational Health
Rethinking Growth
 
Resources
https://theleadersjourney.kit.com/organizational-growth

What happens when physical pain becomes part of a leader's everyday life? In this episode, Trisha talks with Warrick Baker about his journey with chronic pain, the cycle that contributed to his condition, and the lessons he has learned. Together, they explore what it means to listen to pain rather than simply trying to make it disappear, and how alignment, balance, grace, and discernment can shape the way we lead.
 
Warrick is the youngest of seven siblings from Baton Rouge, LA. He earned a Bachelor of Science from the University of Southern Mississippi and the Master of Arts and Master of Divinity degrees from Houston Graduate School of Theology. He has been a pastor and community leader in Pearland, TX for more than 20 years. Warrick is passionate about encouraging God's people. He is married to Aundrea Baker, and they have four children. He is the owner of Coach's Construction and has been a long-standing Rotarian. Warrick enjoys spending time with his family,  competing as a USA Track and Field Master athlete, and coaching young people in track and field at a national level

 
Conversation Overview
Pain as a Part of Leadership

The Cycle of Pain
Apathy and Atrophy
From Injury to Chronic Condition
Pain as a Teacher
Breaking the Cycle
Alignment and Balance
Living Beyond Pain
Grace and Discernment in Leadership
Resources
Warrick at The Leader's Journey
The Vicious Pain Cycle:

Leaders are tired. Not all tiredness is the same, though, and understanding what kind of tired we are experiencing can be an important first step toward meaningful rest and self-care. In this conversation, Trisha and therapist Chelsie Sargent explore the different kinds of fatigue leaders experience, from burnout and compassion fatigue to the exhaustion we create for ourselves by overcommitting, ignoring boundaries, and staying constantly "on." Together, they consider what authentic self-care and rest can look like for leaders.
 
Chelsie Sargent is a Licensed Professional Counselor with a Doctorate of Professional Counseling. She has extensive experience working with individuals, families, teens, and young adults, with a focus on issues including anxiety, depression, trauma, grief, abuse, and anger management. Chelsea is also a Certified Anger Resolution Therapist and has training in the Enneagram and EMDR.
Key Takeaways
Not All Tiredness Is the Same
Burnout, Compassion Fatigue, and "Burn Up"
The Fatigue We Create for Ourselves
Boundaries and the Window of Tolerance
Learning to Turn It Off
Getting Unstuck From Other People's Anxiety
Treat Yourself vs. Self-Care
Caring for Body, Mind, and Soul
Making Space for Authentic Rest
Resources
 
http://www.chelsiesargentcounseling.com/