The Leader's Journey Podcast

In this episode, Trisha sits down with Mac to explore what happens when dialogue has run its course, and agreement still is not possible. While healthy organizations value conversation, listening, and discernment, there are moments when leaders must move forward even when consensus cannot be reached.
Together, they examine two common leadership traps. Some groups skip meaningful dialogue and rush to decisions. Others stay in conversation indefinitely, believing that enough discussion will eventually produce agreement. Trisha and Mac discuss how leaders can avoid both extremes by creating clear processes for decision making, defining responsibility, and building the maturity required to remain connected even when people disagree.
Throughout the conversation, they reflect on the deeper work that takes place in these moments. Leadership is not only about making good decisions but also about who people become as they navigate conflict, disappointment, and differing convictions together.
 
Mac is a pastor and leadership team member with The Leader's Journey. His work focuses on helping church leaders grow in emotional maturity, navigate difficult conversations, and develop healthier leadership cultures within their organizations.
 
Conversation Overview
Two Common Ditches in Dialogue

When Consensus Becomes a Barrier

Defining Yourself Without Demanding Agreement

Deciding How Decisions Will Be Made

Authority, Responsibility, and Leadership Clarity

Staying Connected When Disagreement Remains
 

References and Resources 
 
Mac McCarthy - The Leader's Journey
Register for the "When Dialogue Isn't Enough" conversation on March 26
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In this episode, Trisha sits down with Rick to talk about how communication really works inside organizations. They move beyond announcements and memos to look at communication as an ongoing cultural process that shapes trust, clarity, and effectiveness. Together, they explore how messages change as they move through layers of leadership, why first-line supervisors matter so much, and what makes listening across teams challenging, especially in times of change. Throughout the conversation, they return to a simple idea: communication gets better when leaders pay as much attention to what they are hearing as to what they are saying.
 
Rick Rarick is a leadership coach and former Human Resources and Management Development executive with Levi Strauss, the Coca-Cola Company, Fiserv, and Invesco. During his professional career, Rick was responsible for helping his organizations define their vision and purpose, develop talent pipelines, and create cultures where people were committed to their work and each other. His work with clients is grounded in coaching the whole person: including the mental, emotional, and spiritual self. His approach to leadership is about taking initiative, defining a vision, and helping those around you be successful.
 
Conversation Overview
Communication as Culture, Not an Event

Continuous Flow vs. Big Announcements

The Critical Role of Supervisors and Context

Listening and Feedback

Communication Across Levels and Silos

Leadership Self-Awareness and Assumptions

 
Resourses
Rick Rarick at The Leader's Journey
The Leader's Journey Blog
https://www.youtube.com/@theleadersjourney

We communicate every day, yet we rarely stop to think about what we are actually doing when we enter a conversation. In this episode, Trisha and Elissa explore the basics of communication through a simple but powerful metaphor: conversation as a game of catch. What does it mean to throw well? To catch well? To take turns? To play generously? Together they unpack how conversations flow, how they break down, and how we can become more mindful, generous participants in the everyday exchanges that shape our relationships at work, at home, and in our communities.
 
Conversation Overview
Conversation as a game of catch

Throwing and catching: sending and receiving skills

Interrupting, over-talking, and holding the ball

Asking good questions and keeping the game moving

Generosity, anxiety, and when catch turns into dodgeball

Staying in the game instead of taking the ball home

 
Guest Bio
Elissa Lappenga is a professional educator, trainer, and coach with over 20 years of experience in education, non-profit, corporate, and community settings. Elissa earned her Master of Education (M.Ed.) from UCLA with a concentration in counseling and was one of the first facilitators of the university's Intergroup Dialogue program. She also maintains a SHRM-CP certification with the Society for Human Resources Management and is a PROSCI certified change management practitioner.
 
Resources and References Mentioned
Elissa on The Leaders Journey

Register for the Upcoming Zoom: How to Have a Converstation

Jim Herrington has been a steady voice on The Leader's Journey Podcast for years. In this episode, Trisha Taylor reflects with him on the long arc of his life, leadership, and learning as he steps into a slightly different role at The Leader's Journey. Together they explore the leadership principle that has shaped everything Jim does: leadership is all about learning. From early experiences of trauma and racism, to systems thinking, reflection, and the ongoing work of emotional and spiritual maturity, this conversation offers a deeper look at the experiences that formed Jim's perspective and continue to shape his work today.
 
Conversation Overview
Leadership is all about learning

Learning shaped by pain, experience, and reflection

Seeing yourself, your system, and your role within it

Defining yourself and staying connected under pressure

The long work of systems change and emotional maturity

Encouragement and wisdom for the next generation of leaders
 

Resources and References Mentioned
The Fifth Discipline by Peter Senge

Murray Bowen Family Systems Theory

The Divine Conspiracy by Dallas Willard

Union Baptist Association

As a new year begins, leaders are often faced with uncertainty, change, and challenges that cannot be solved with a predetermined plan. In this episode of The Leader's Journey Podcast, Trisha Taylor welcomes Megan Mills for a thoughtful and practical conversation about improvisation and its surprising relevance to leadership and everyday life. Together, they explore how the principles of improv such as trust, listening, shared agreements, and adaptability offer a powerful framework for navigating complexity, collaborating well, and showing up fully when the path forward is unclear.
Megan Mills is originally from Waukegan, IL (north of Chicago), went to Hope College in Holland, MI and shortly after graduation, moved to New York City. Her early years in NYC were spent in stage management and personal assistant roles as well as performing, creating, teaching and directing improvisational theatre. Now daily life includes driving her son back and forth to numerous games and practices throughout Queens, NY and the tri-state area. Megan has a passion for organization, The Container Store, and Chicago Cubs. She has also been an advocate, public speaker, and volunteer for the American Heart and Stroke Association for the past 20+ years.

Conversation Overview

Beginning the year without a script
Improv as a tool for adaptive leadership
The importance of shared agreements and trust
"Yes, and" as a mindset for collaboration
Listening, presence, and patience in real time
Supporting others instead of competing
Improv games as practice for real life skills
Applying improv principles to teams and leadership
Creating safety and inclusion for all voices
Meeting uncertainty with openness and curiosity

Resources and References Mentioned

Megan Mills at The Leader's Journey
Truth in Comedy by Del Close and Charna Halpern
Harvard Business Review - Three Improv Exercises That Can Change the Way Your Team Works
TED Talks on improv, adaptability, and leadership
Improv exercises including Three Headed Expert and listening games