As you and most of the world know, Dame Jacinda is the former Prime Minister of New Zealand and recently published her best-selling memoir, A Different Kind of Power.
Our cross-hemisphere conversation covers identity, servant leadership, politics and her immense sense of responsibility. We also chat about the brand new documentary, Prime Minister, (and having partner Clarke Gayford turning the camera on her at home), and her latest offering, Mum’s Busy Work, a children’s book.
I loved gaining more insight into her early life, the family and faith that shaped her. As well as hearing what it was like balancing the demands of early motherhood and running a country.
As my local Mt Albert MP, I have long admired Jacinda for her bravery and empathetic leadership, in spite of her self doubt, and I am so excited to be able to share this heartfelt conversation with you all.
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Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.
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Season 8 kicks off tomorrow!
Season 8 of Grey Areas launches tomorrow! And just like the first sensational seven seasons my guests will wrangle with the challenging, embrace the mystery and celebrate the wins - I’m excited to dig into the grey areas of life with my NEW guests and you. Can’t wait!
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BONUS: ADHD and the hormone house of cards | Dr Greg Finucane
In this bonus episode of Grey Areas, we bring you the full interview with neuropsychiatrist Dr Greg Finucane for episode 1 of this season, ‘When ADHD meets perimenopause’. A conversation that turned out to be unexpectedly emotional – and incredibly clarifying.
We talk about why so many women, including me, are getting diagnosed with ADHD in midlife, and how perimenopause can cause the carefully stacked house of cards that is our coping mechanisms to start to fall.
Greg and I tackle what’s happening in the brain, how diagnostic systems work (and sometimes don’t), and whether ADHD is really a disorder – or just a different way of being in the world.
This episode is personal. I share parts of my own story: the grief, the relief, the letting go of old narratives. We also talk meds, stigma, late diagnosis, and how many of us have spent decades holding ourselves to impossible standards.
If you've ever found yourself asking “what’s wrong with me?” – or wondering if it’s too late to figure it out – this conversation is for you.
Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.
Support the show: https://greyareas.nz/support
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A relational world - Part 2 | Dame Anne Salmond
In part two of my conversation with Dame Anne Salmond, we go deeper - into wānanga (the meeting of ideas), into te ao Māori (Māori worldview), and into the kind of thinking that could help us live better together.
Dame Anne speaks about her decades-long relationship with her Māori mentors, Eruera and Amiria Stirling, and how those relationships rewired her understanding of the world. We talk about what it means to live in a relational way - and how te reo Māori doesn’t just name the world, it can reshape it. This kōrero makes space for where anthropology meets awe, and scholarship meets soul.
We also talk about tapu and mana, and how those concepts aren’t just beautiful - they are power filled. We discuss Te Tiriti o Waitangi, not as a document of rights and rules, but as a sacred gift exchange rooted in respect. We touch on binary thinking, politics, creativity, and the purpose of universities - and why the best ideas are born in spaces where words can be blown about by the wind and shone on by the sun.
This conversation is a gift. It’s a call back to care, and forward into complexity, beauty, and balance.
Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.
Support the show: https://greyareas.nz/support
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A relational world - Part 1 | Dame Anne Salmond
In this first part of our kōrero, I sit down with Dame Anne Salmond—a thinker whose mind is vast, and whose heart is very much rooted in the soil of Aotearoa. Dame Anne is an anthropologist, writer, and one of our most decorated scholars, but what shapes her most is relationship - whakapapa, whenua, and whānau.
We start where all good conversations should: at the kitchen table. Dame Anne tells me about her wild and wonderful upbringing in a family of nine kids, where dinner was frequently like a full-blown debate club, and learning happened between bites. We talk about difference - political, personal - and why being able to think, laugh and disagree together is something worth holding on to.
She also shares the love story behind Waikereru, Longbush Reserve, the eco-sanctuary she and her husband Jeremy created near her childhood haunts on the outskirts of Gisbourne, and how that land became a place of healing, beauty, and belonging for them both.
This part of the conversation is full of life - stories of childhood, whakapapa, parenting, joy, grief, restoration, and deep connection to place. It's the foundation for the rich ideas we explore in part two.
Song credit: Korimako, Performed by Aro, Written by Emily Looker and Charles Looker and published by Songbroker.
Support the show: https://greyareas.nz/support
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Kia ora and nau mai haere mai to Grey Areas with me, Petra Bagust. This is about growing up and going grey, in Aotearoa New Zealand because I’m getting older. And so are you. So how do we do it well?
I reckon we can do it with a bit of gorgeousness and gusto and break that ‘getting old’ mould just a little. Or maybe more than a little.
So join me as we climb into some of those topics that just aren't so clear-cut, maybe are a little chewy, a little crunchy… and let’s journey our way through them.
I've got a group of wonderful wāhine, and the odd beaut bloke, to chat with, and we're going to share some wisdom that we've discovered along the way. And I’d love for you to share your wisdom with me too, because everybody has something to offer.
Ireland