Science of Perception Box

What if everything you see, hear, and feel isn't real? What if it's just your brain's best prediction of what's real? Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch sat down with neuroscientist and consciousness researcher Anil Seth to explore the profound question of: What is consciousness? Seth's answer might surprise (and even unsettle) you. Consciousness isn't a window onto reality. It's a controlled hallucination constructed by your brain to make sense of a world it can never directly access. These questions of consciousness illuminate central ideas of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Anil Seth is Professor of Cognitive and Computational Neuroscience and Director of the Centre for Consciousness Science at the University of Sussex. He is the author of Being You: A New Science of Consciousness and more than 200 scientific papers.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

00:00 Escaping the echo chamber

01:43 Defining consciousness

09:05 Perception as "controlled hallucination"

11:26 Why perception feels like reality (an adaptive illusion)

17:06 When perception shapes social and historical "truth"

19:03 Hallucination as uncontrolled perception

21:57 What is the self?

33:38 Intelligence vs. consciousness

35:42 Anthropomorphizing AI and "bio-chauvinism"

36:10 Biological naturalism: can AI be conscious?

39:44 Should AI be designed to seem conscious?

40:52 Perception Box question

Psychologist Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman explores the difference between victimhood and victim mindset, explaining why learned helplessness is actually our default state, and how developing agency is the key to transformative change. He discusses vulnerable narcissism, the dangers of excessive accommodation, and why growth requires embracing adversity rather than avoiding discomfort. Plus: why Darth Vader is actually an example of overcoming a victim mindset. Dr. Kaufman’s exploration of the victimhood mindset reveals a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Scott Barry Kaufman is a psychologist focused on untapped potential and reframing intelligence. He is a professor of psychology at Columbia University and director of the Center for Human Potential. He has written and edited 11 books, with the most recent being Rise Above: Overcome a Victim Mindset. He has written articles for widely respected publications, including The Atlantic, Scientific American, and Harvard Business Review, and he’s also the host of The Psychology Podcast. In addition to teaching at Columbia, he also taught as a professor at NYU and the University of Pennsylvania.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.

Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show.

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Episode Chapters:

00:00 Opening

02:53 Defining the Victim Mindset

03:30 Rumination and Entitlement

05:42 Rethinking Learned Helplessness

08:01 Victimhood vs Victim

09:04 Empowerment Traits

09:44 Genes and Resilience

12:22 Vulnerable Narcissism Link

15:59 Escaping Emotional Victimhood

17:00 Agency Over Accommodations

19:18 Letting Kids Fail

24:56 Villain Or Victim Game

Even though our experiences are shaped by unconscious patterns and bodily sensations, we have the agency to actively transform them simply by staying present and aware. Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch sit down with Stanford neuroscientist and “Huberman Lab” host Andrew Huberman to explore the science of how your brain and body talk to each other, and how you can use that conversation to your advantage. Huberman shares his evidence-based solutions for optimizing brain function, mood, energy, and physical performance in order to learn new skills and behaviors that can transform your life. Huberman’s exploration of the brain-body connection speaks to a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Andrew Huberman is a Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford University School of Medicine and host of the “Huberman Lab” podcast. His newest book, Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body publishes in September 2026 and culminates years of research, lab work, and conversations with scientists.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

00:00 Opening

06:33 Yoga Nidra and Tactical Breathing

09:25 What Helps Addiction

14:18 Physiological Sigh

17:37 Naming Shapes Adoption

23:05 Alcohol Health Consensus

26:20 Gut Microbiome and Nutrition

27:42 Sex and Wellbeing

30:56 Sleep, Aging and Melatonin

32:42 Protocols Book Overview

35:18 Letting Go and Faith

37:56 Psychedelics

39:44 Perception Box Questions

How much of your energy is focused on trying to change people who aren't ready to change? Best-selling author and podcast host Mel Robbins joins Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to explore what happens when you stop trying to control others and start reclaiming your own life. Robbins calls it the “Let Them Theory”: a deceptively simple idea that has struck a nerve with millions worldwide who are using it to address frustration, anxiety, their need for control, and more.

Mel’s “Let Them Theory” touches on a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Mel Robbins is a #1 New York Times bestselling author and host of the award-winning “Mel Robbins Podcast”, with more than 40 million followers worldwide. Her book The Let Them Theory was the top-selling nonfiction title of 2025, selling seven million copies in nine months.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

05:09 Introducing Mel Robbins

06:43 Parents And Instinct to Rescue

12:32 Helping Without Pushback

14:27 Annoying Spouse Habits

19:00 “Let Them, Let Me” Boundaries

21:03 Losing Control In Modern Life

26:01 The Cold Tea Test

27:12 Flow State Reset

28:51 Why Let Them Works

31:48 Let Them Let Me Boundaries

33:28 Radical Acceptance in Relationships

37:17 Perception Box Reflections

40:24 People Pleasing as Control

43:01 Let Them or Step In Game

Dr. Camilo Ortiz, clinical psychologist and creator of Independence Therapy, joins hosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to unpack why the instinct in modern parenting to protect kids from every risk may be backfiring. Dr. Ortiz explains how a child's Perception BoxTM starts forming almost as soon as they can speak, why parents today wildly overestimate danger despite living in the safest era on record, and how everyday tasks such as chopping vegetables, walking to the store alone can rebuild kids' confidence and resilience.

Dr. Camilo Ortiz is board-certified in behavioral and cognitive therapy. He holds an MS and PhD in Clinical Psychology from the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, and serves as a tenured associate psychology professor at Long Island University, bringing 20 years of clinical experience to his role.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Chapters:

06:39 Independence With Guardrails

13:03 Freedom Versus Neglect

16:26 Getting Lost Builds Confidence

18:55 “When Then” Parenting

23:52 Why Parents Overprotect

28:27 Independence Therapy Basics

31:01 When Freedom Backfires

42:07 Independence Or Interference

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.